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Comment by jhedwards | Hacker News Reader

I know this is kind of silly, but it annoys me a bit to see this portrayed as some creative innovation of the Japanese on top of some ancient Chinese system, when it's really just a simplification of the Confucian text Yue Ling: https://ctext.org/liji/yue-ling

The Yue Ling is a beautiful text, and it speaks to an aspect of Confucianism which I find fascinating, which is the idea that the ideal scholar-official should have a deep understanding of both climate and ecology. It's also fascinating how Japan imported and creatively re-interpreted this text, but it's originally of Chinese creation.

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From the article:

The names were also originally taken from China, but they did not always match up well with the local climate. In Japan, they were eventually rewritten in 1685 by the court astronomer Shibukawa Shunkai. In their present form, they offer a poetic journey through the Japanese year in which the land awakens and blooms with life and activity before returning to slumber

> It's also fascinating how Japan imported and creatively re-interpreted this text

Isnt that what the article is about? Or do we have to find the first person to talk about seasons?

Although the origins of the text matter for presentation, my only thought when reading this text was "man, I wish my flavor of European culture had this as well and I wish it were taught in school at some point".

It may not have exactly this, but it probably has more than you realize. The rush of the 20th and 21st century has crowded out a lot of stuff. The western world has a rich poetry and literature tradition. Given how severed we are from all of it nowadays you may well find you still get that foreign culture frisson from digging into it.

The Japanese version looks quite a bit more grounded in naturalism than the Chinese version, or at least TFA's translation does (i.e. August 28–September 1 天地始粛 vs 天地始肅 [1]). "Heat starts to die down" is not exactly precise but better than "Heaven and Earth begin to Withdraw" and "Cotton flowers bloom" is definitely a lot better than "Eagles worship the Birds".

I'm not the GP but I definitely want a calendar made up of details like this, regardless of it's literary quality.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chushu

Chinese and Japanese's version are the same (in this case). Just different translation.

Actually, neither "Heat starts to die down" nor "Heaven and Earth begin to Withdraw" is a good interpretation of 天地始肅.

"Heaven and Earth begin to Withdraw" is a very literal translation. In this case, 天地 = everything = everthing growing from the ground, so 天地始肅 means plants are no longer sprouting.

"Heat starts to die down" is not a translation. Just a convenient English paraphrase.

It may be a good idea to read the article first.

> Originally taken from Chinese sources, these are still well-known around East Asia.

> The names were also originally taken from China, but they did not always match up well with the local climate. In Japan, they were eventually rewritten in 1685 by the court astronomer Shibukawa Shunkai.

Japan did import A LOT of cultural things from the ancient Huaxia civilization (which makes sense, as they were pretty close geographically), and they're usually pretty clear about that.

I do think it would be hard to trace back to the first person who discovered "seasons" though...

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