Demystifying ESIM Technology [video]
media.ccc.de
media.ccc.de
This was a big success and it turned out to be a bit of a mascotte :P They've become a permanent fixture now.
Found this one, but it's for testing only: https://www.smartjac.biz/esim-subscription-management/consum...
Seems like it should be possible to solder an eUICC chip to a SIM-card form factor board and use it with OpenEUICC. [1] Somebody is even selling those pre-soldered on Taobao: https://shop104192953.world.taobao.com/
Later in that thread, somebody also reported that OpenEUICC works with eSIM.me's cards, too. If you have one of these, can you give it a try perhaps?
[1]: https://gitea.angry.im/PeterCxy/OpenEUICC, https://github.com/AndroPlus-org/magisk-module-openeuicc
Perhaps the carriers that specialise in temporary data contracts for travelers are ok, but local permanent carriers are crap with this.
I'll consider it if I ever travel outside of europe though (roaming inside EU was fixed several years ago luckily).
I can get a local SIM with 50GB data that is available with a 10 euro topup each month.
Don't forget the purchasing power in Europe is much lower than in the US (especially southern Europe). For this reason local carriers are a lot cheaper too.
*Genuinely unlimited data - including tethering, no speed limits or soft caps where you get limited to 128kbps or anything like that after using 100GB.
In my case they clearly have to say upfront on the cheaper unlimited, it's not rate limited until X but the caps have to be proportionate so it's still absolutely fine, they do have an "always on" thing for capped packages though, so you're never really cut off (data only which does not have such strict regulation as voice/SMS)
https://prepaid-data-sim-card.fandom.com/wiki/Registration_P...
I remember reading an article in a French newspaper about how carriers were "uncomfortable" with the eSIM because it severed "the last connection" between them and their customers. The latter would basically no longer have a reason to "interact" with the former.
I don't quite see how that's a bad thing. The less you have to deal with "those people" (and this works from either side), the better it is, no? In my case, the last time I've "interacted" with my carrier was some 10 years ago when my phone got stolen, and I had to get a new SIM. Other than that, I pay them every month and they make sure my phone works every month.
At least with my carrier, it's cheaper to get an eSIM than a physical SIM. I didn't actually get one, since I've had my current SIM for a very long time. They basically charge for the "SIM service", and there's a separate charge for the physical part if you get it in a brick & mortar store, or for shipping if you want it delivered.
> Usually only locally sold models are allowed.
How can they tell, are there still country-specific models? I know people from the US and from Russia coming to France, popping a local SIM in and being in business. These were all iPhones, though.
But how is the carrier going to "engage" you? How are all the people involved in sales and marketing there going to justify their job?
A carrier that operates fully automatically with minimal customer interaction could indeed be more profitable, but it's politically impossible for any established company to transition to such a model since it would obviate the need for many positions there - those same positions rely on the current status-quo (no matter how mediocre) and will fight any attempts at improving efficiency.
(this is not limited to carriers, any large legacy company has the same issues - lots of positions are just there to create work to sustain other, equally-useless positions, while the new output of the system being zero or even negative).
The less contact, the less opportunity to upsell you to something that provides them recurring revenue.
It's all about rent seeking ("passive income") these days, everywhere.
That's a very delicate euphemism for "eSIM makes it easier to switch networks, which would increase churn and eat into our margins".
I love how they put this because it's exactly how I phrase my general objection to and avoidance of SaaS and other kinds of services. I do NOT want to have a relationship with every single vendor. Managing relationships is costly. Most of the time, those relationships are highly abusive towards the customer. And they're almost always artificial anyway; they exist entirely to let the vendor keep a sales channel open. That's exactly what I do not want as a customer.
Or not, considering how store employees are treated and paid. It's probably much cheaper to bribe some low-level clerk than build & deploy a convincing AI spoofing solution.
SIM cards also have their place, however, which is why Apple’s take on it is weird. When traveling, especially with so much MFA (for better or worse) is linked to a phone number, it makes having your phone damaged a major issue. You can’t simply pop out the SIM and move it across to a new phone.
Even if you manage to get a new eSIM, most of the time you can’t activate it until you’re back in your origin country.
This as an issue (carrier or otherwise) needs to be addressed with some urgency.
Exactly, this is a huge problem for me because I don't do post-paid (after one bill with unintended overage charges, I much prefer them just cutting me off until I pay again).
The sim swapping being controlled by the provider (every time you need a new QR and they need to 'grant' it to you) is more restrictive too, and they usually enforce only models they sell directly. It's a real loss of flexibility that we used to have with hardware SIMs.
Stop giving companies money for making stupid decisions. It only emboldens them further.
However it is a bit more understandable because the flip has very limited space due to the hinge components.
Models sold elsewhere in the world retain a single physical SIM slot.
Yes you read that correctly. They made multiple versions and the American one is deliberately crippled.
I'm certain the space regained by removing the SIM slot in a US-only variant has been repurposed for...absolutely nothing.
It defies logic why they would do this, beyond some grand social experiment they can execute with little risk due to cult-like monopoly control of the market.
I refuse to believe that they sold more than 12 of these SIM-less phones.
> I'm certain the space regained by removing the SIM slot in a US-only variant has been repurposed for...absolutely nothing.
Yeah, after all the specs are no different in any other way I guess?
Samsung is doing something similar here though. They leave out the mmWave antennas. On US models you can see the antenna cutouts on their premium models but in Europe there is nothing in that space, just empty.
It's a shame because while mmWave is not a thing here right now I don't buy my phones for just one year.
Good point on the mmWave support. I wonder if that's where the antenna is located. I don't care about mmWave, nor does anyone I know, so it doesn't even cross my mind.
mmWave is a dying tech. It will suffer the same fate as WiMAX. If this is the trade off (and it shouldn't be), I'll choose the SIM slot every time.
I think mmWave has a lot more staying power than WiMAX. WiMAX as deployed was an alternative network to general purpose cell phone networks. As a third alternative to CDMA/GSM and upcoming LTE, it didn't make a lot of sense in the market.
mmWave is deployed as augmentation to a network, mostly to increase capacity at hotspots like stadiums and maybe transit centers. Additionally it provides beneficial marketting, because network providers and handset makers can claim their network/device does huge bandwidth even if it's only true when you're the only person in a stadium.
Given that US iPhone 12 and up support mmWave, and that spectrum management is a challenge at stadiums, it's pretty likely we'll continue to see deployments in that space. Even if mmWave doesn't live up to the marketting, moving half the customers to it frees up traditional spectrum for those customers that don't have it.
Is it going to expand much beyond those situations? Maybe to airports and NYC train stations, but probably not beyond that. Is it ever going to be more than a small fraction of time connected for people other than stadium employees? No. Does that mean it's dying? No, it's just a constrained niche. Should you prefer a phone with or without mmWave? Depends on how often you go into situations with high person density.
Depending on the venue, they're likely to do a mix of whatever is most cost effective. But more spectrum, if usable by the handsets people actually have in their pockets is helpful.
https://youtu.be/6CPFYwTOatc?t=304
It's a nice 5-element (in 1 direction of course) phased array. There seems to be no room for a second one so if you use mmWave you'll have to make sure not to cover it with your hand. Non foldable ones usually have two for that reason.
Edit: oops you weren't talking about the flip but the iPhone. In that case, no I don't think the mm wave is where the sim slot was but not 100% sure.
This proves it was purely a marketing move which makes the decision even more insane.
As to why Apple is pushing esim I can imagine several reasons. Number 1 is just the space in the phone itself. I also think that Apple would love a world where people didn’t go the carrier stores. More people would buy directly from them and then get pitched all the Apple stuff instead of the carrier’s. Everything from accessories to insurance. I do think the world will much better once carriers are reduced to utilities and I think widespread esim usage would go a long ways towards that.
iPhones are irrelevant in most of the world. Unless Samsung and Xiaomi decide that they also want to ditch physical SIM, it’s not going anywhere.
From the perspective of the rest of the world, eSIM-only phones seem bizarrely crippled. Why would I want a phone that I can’t use in every country? Just another case of the US not understanding the rest of the world.
I think you’ll find that iPhones are used all around the world. They are ubiquitous in the US so people tend to scoff at them being held up as a status symbol but they absolutely are in the world at large. If you look at who is using iPhones in the countries you say the iPhone is irrelevant in you’ll see it is the wealthy and the ones that want to emulate them. Those are the customers the carriers want to have. hell those are the customers every company wants. My guess is that Apple is giving carriers a few years to get on it before being left behind by iPhone users.
I wonder if Apple has any other long term plans with esim? Will they have their own MVNO offering? It would fit in with their services expansion goals.
They're trying to kill physical SIM cards like they did with CDs. They only have their place insofar as you can say 'I can touch this, and also swap it out with another one' / otherwise 'tangible computing'.
Because that's all eSIMs are you know. They are not software SIMs. They are physical components with the additional capability of being provisioned remotely by the end user with a friendly UI that sometimes works.
Moving physical SIMs (and thus your service) from a damaged, inoperable phone to a new one takes approximately 5 seconds. This cannot be improved upon with eSIM.
That said, eSIMs have their place too, especially in the industrial IoT space. But completely eliminating physical SIMs from consumer handsets is beyond stupid.
Plus, you can usually keep using the sim from your old carrier and the same number when you switch providers. (sometimes sims need replacing when network upgrades happen)
If the conflict is actually intentional after all, I'd also be curious around the history of that.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DEF_CON#Venues,_dates,_and_att...
1. Materials - newer phones are not even close in durability to 3310.
2. Logic of menu - old Nokias can be used without looking at display, new phones can update some UI statements after purchasing.
3. Display - colour displays are always less durable and almost always phones with such display has issues with too little font on some critical places. Compare any UI framework of any modern feature phone with a conception of three-line display where a letter/digit is never less than 1/3 of display height. Some versions of Nokias have increased font in typing a phone number case, I mean the numbers become 1/2 of display height which is handy for a low-sight person. Modern UI progress is a batshit compared to Nokia 1280.
None of these limitations were present with physical SIMs.
To be fair, on this particular point it can be incompetence. Telecoms have absolutely no skilled engineering capacity (third-world body shop is as good as it gets) and the entire thing runs on decades of duct tape and outdated, unsupported and vulnerable software.
The most likely reason for this not to be possible on prepay is that prepay and postpay are managed by completely different systems and making the prepay system work with eSIMs would be too difficult, or maybe they tried, it broke, they rolled it back and have a "TODO" to fix that (of course the TODO will never be addressed).
For GSM carriers, esims add a layer of complexity because they are apparently bound to a phone. As you probably know, SIM cards can generally be swapped in.
This makes provisioning more complicated, because roaming. I never bothered to understand how GSM addressing and routing works, but I'm assuming this requirement makes things even harder to deal with.