A tale about how Ben Franklin invented the US | Hacker News Reader

A tale about how Ben Franklin invented the US

jmsdnns.com

62 pointsjmsdnns60 comments

One of John Adams' famous criticisms of Franklin came in a letter to James Lovell dated April 14, 1781. In it, Adams writes:

"The history of our Revolution will be one continued lie from one end to the other. The essence of the whole will be that Dr. Franklin's electrical rod smote the Earth and out sprang General Washington. That Franklin electrified him with his rod—and henceforth these two conducted all the policy, negotiations, legislatures and war."

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That is probably how Ben Franklin would describe it too, depending on the audience.

Also, football. The real football.

You mean hand egg

Amusingly, football was created as a way to keep people from killing each other after the Civil War.

That's why the game resembles warfare.

Looks like rugby with more protective gear.

This sounds like a direct quote from Soldier in TF2.

Lol

Unfortunately based on the other replies President Ben also invented sarcasm and it was never exported back to Europe.

It is the greatest nation if you believe in Locke and human flourishing.

The 20th century fundamentally changed the structure and nature of the US, and has since just been war, empire and fleecing the poor, the middle class and soon the rich.

It's a little odd for a nation that invented democracy and freedom to have human chattel slavery as a government policy in checks notes 1863.

Freedom and democracy for some people at the expense of others wasn't exactly a novel invention, you could look back to other slave societies like ancient Athens for it.

Ben Franklin invented the US, not freedom and democracy. The distinction is important.

Ben Franklin invented distinction, both with and without a difference.

America had to invent freedom and democracy because Europe had no idea of those concepts.

Dangerous times for sarcasm

An elegant weapon, for a more... civilized age

Very funny. America is nowhere near "the oldest nation on earth".

Denmark has existed as a unified country since the 8th century AD [https://japan.um.dk/en/about-denmark/denmark/history]

San Marino since 301 AD [https://www.timetravelturtle.com/visiting-san-marino-oldest-...]

and many others.

Let's make revisionism fun: "Asterix in the USA" (1994 film): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asterix_Conquers_America

> Very funny. America is nowhere near "the oldest nation on earth".

So you're agreeing that it is indeed the greatest nation on earth?

It was sarcasm. One clue that a non-American might not get is that Benjamin Franklin was never president.

I know that, you noticed the first two words were "Very funny"?

The rest of it was directed at other people who genuinely believe the claim.

The rest of it seems to have missed that the original comment was sarcasm.

No, to repeat, the rest of it was addressed at the non-empty subset of readers who genuinely believe the claim. I love you telling me repeatedly what you assume my intent was, especially when the assumption was wrong. You could try it a third time.

The story of Franklin's role in the history of Physics almost never gets told properly.

The PBS Mechanical Universe series did a good job with it, given that they only had 25 minutes to work with.

https://youtu.be/N72oYRZvFzA

"...he means well for his Country, is always an honest Man, often a wise one, but sometimes, and in some things, absolutely out of his senses."

- Ben Franklin in a letter about how Adams is (to paraphrase) a clueless, paranoid, anti-social, self-righteous loudmouth. Adams had issues.

Bit of the pot calling the kettle black, there.

> He got the French on-board with the US cause by repeatedly lying to French leaders about how well the war against the British was going! He told them the colonies were kicking ass left n right and he urged them to join in while English ass was still available. History books typically mention the shock of the French when they arrived in the colonies and find Washington’s Army in poor health, with many barely clothed at all, but they don’t usually say why they were so shocked. The truth here is classic Franklin. The French Army would already be fighting by the time France learned of it, and Franklin could surely find a way to talk himself out of that.

Smart. Exploiting the fact that transatlantic communications took a couple of months at the time. Franklin would have had to use a different strategy today!

One if the earliest examples of fake it till you make it?

I prefer to think of it as April 19, 1775

That was just a dispute about taxation. January 10, 1776 was when the clarion call sounded.

Yes! That is how I think of it too.

They had crossed the chasm and the second adoption bump was starting to explode.

1776 is also the year Adam Smith published Wealth of Nations, and Thomas Paine published Common Sense.

The battles of Lexington and Concord were not (directly) about taxation. It was over confiscation of militia cannons and other weapons.

July 4th is the US’s birthday.

The article is describing the conception and pregnancy of the US.

The authors don't understand what birthday means.

No, it isnt. July 4th happened after the Union was already a thing.

I mean, your birthday also happens after you are already a thing.

Actually you’re just a clump of cells until you’re born

You're still a clump of cells

Unless you’re an elf (according to Tolkien), but apparently they gestate for a year so it doesn’t matter.

Didn’t the Koreans give up on that recently?

> Fourth of July, is a federal holiday in the United States commemorating the Declaration of Independence, which was ratified by the Second Continental Congress on July 4, 1776, establishing the United States of America.

> The main thing to understand, before I go into detail, is that the Declaration of Independence is one of the founding documents, but it did not create a nation. Some of the colonists got together and wrote a historically eloquent letter to the world that basically said, “ayyyy England, F your king!”

Saying "F your king" is an integral part in being independent of England which is a prerequisite to being an independent nation. The Declaration of Independence established the United States as an independent nation. Any previous forms of the United States would have been a colony of England.

> The Continental Association is first time the colonies expressed a collective will to work together in the form of a legal document. It was published October 20, 1774 but went into effect December 1, 1774. The US does not observe December 1 as a national holiday, though it should. It is barely in the cultural memory at all.

The Continental Association is, essentially, where the colonies got together and discussed the idea of independence. The word "colonies" is a dead giveaway. After July 4th, there were no more colonies.

"The Union", referred to by Lincoln. Is not synonymous with the Nation.

The independent nation of the United States of America declared its sovereignty on July 4th, 1776. That's the "correct" way to think about July 4th, aka Independence Day.

It didnt have its sovereignty until the Treaty of Paris was signed in 1783.

You can say whatever day you want is your birthday, but only one day actually is.

Because a treaty in Europe determines sovereignty?

Yes. That's when England recognized it as a nation.

'England', or the United Kingdom?

A treaty between the breakaway rebels, and the previous claimants to sovereignty, where the previous claimants accept the rebels claims and give up their own, would seem to be a pretty good candidate for the official start date of sovereignty.

The place where the treaty was signed is much less important than what it said and who signed it, even if it ends up being named after that place.

Huh, rare to see a monarchist view expressed here.

This is like saying the constitution grants rights.

The Revolutionary War was over a disagreement between England and the US over the validity of the declared independence on July 4th and the US won that argument when the Treaty of Paris acknowledged the validity of the Declaration of Independence.

> It didnt have its sovereignty until the Treaty of Paris was signed in 1783.

What? You have sovereignty as soon as you decide it. Especially if you are fighting a war to maintain your sovereignty. If the treaty was never signed, the US would still be sovereign.

Try this extreme example. Imagine if the founders decided to simply wipe out the british and there was no brit left to sign any treaty. Would the silly british king still be sovereign over the US even though the silly british king and his silly kingdom no longer existed? Of course not.

Headline a little click-baity but good article so far

If anyone can suggest a better title, we can edit it

I think it'd be better with the clickbait simply cut out: "A tale about how Ben Franklin invented the US"

Still feels baity to me but it's better than the original so let's use it. Thanks!

Idk, I found the writing style and the incessant snarks distracting from the central message.

This is my first time writing about history. Would you mind elaborating?

The problem is that I am constantly fatigued in finding out whether what I just read is a snark/joke/hyperbole/exaggeration (which is fun tbh) or a serious historical fact or part of your central thesis.

This is usually quite entertaining in other contexts, but when relaying history which entirely depends on narratives based on facts, it creates fatigue for me.

Thanks! I will keep that in mind next time.

Others might still enjoy it, it’s just my opinion.

At the very least, I can be more intentional about when I am trying to make someone laugh in an otherwise serious essay.

Your opinion is appreciated.

It was my intent to describe the article.

The post actually is a tale about how Ben Franklin invented the US, no?

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