It’s time for Americans to embrace small cars
arstechnica.com
arstechnica.com
American cars have dangerous front blind zones that it took 13 kids in a line for an SUV driver to spot them:
Also:
https://kmph.com/resources/media/08519543-f29c-43be-8ea2-c4f...
Imagine if the car manufacturers being forced to display that pic on their brochures or as as a decal on the side of the SUV in the showroom
I keep shaking my head at how people keep downplaying the range problem and explaining it away with average-based arguments. It's not psychological, and if people wanted the small cars the market would show it. This just reads like moralizing.
It would be much more honest to just acknowledge the above and then state that for the good of the planet the more wasteful of us should adapt and maybe not demand dense 5-minute refuels, be more mindful planning roadtrips, work on supporting charging infra rollout, etc.
They'll say "I can't get an EV because I need to be able to drive from X to Y". So I punch that route into abetterrouteplanner, and >50% of the time the route is quite feasible on a 250 mile EV.
If you've tried that and it doesn't work for you, fine. But many haven't.
And the emissions standards (in the US) have essentially caused the market to produce all stupidly large trucks.
They've also caused other undesirable things like vehicles that are supposed to be rugged now all getting turbos, and ordinary cars that weigh more than large trucks thanks to batteries, and actual large trucks being utterly bonkers weight in ev form.
The problem isn't that there are any regulations, it's merely that they are out of alignment and producing bad results.
More weight costs more energy overhead to move whatever your actual payload is, so although electric motors may be more efficient than gas, it's still true that with batteries you have to accelerate and decelerate a lot more mass in addition to the payload (merely yourself many times). That is overhead. Regenerative braking and collecting energy on the downhill make enough difference that they are worth doing, but still don't come close to erasing what it cost to get going or go up the hill.
Weight increases road wear. A lot.
Weight is harder to stop or steer in an emergency. EVs are highly computerized and so they have excellent traction control which hides this problem in normal conditions, especially when comparing any EV to any older car with only basic or even no traction control. But put two vehicles with the same traction control including the fine conrol afforded by the electric motors, in the same situation, but one merely weighs more, and the heavier one will do worse. And "emergency situation" is really all day every day driving multiplied by millions.
Weight increases tire wear. So much so that now tire rubber in the environment is a thing.
Weight increases the wear on all mechanical parts, most apparent in brakes and engine, but in an EV those are both so much better than an ICE that the effect of weight is masked, but it's still there and actually applies to almost all parts of the vehicle. You don't see it individually but it's there worsening the overall stats on repairs and lifespans. It's like the energy overhead. It's just there making everything work harder, and that costs more of essentially every resource, not just energy but wear & tear, manufacturing, engineering, materials, and performance. "performance" doesn't mean boy racer stuff, I just mean performance of it's job. If a bearing needs to support more weight, it either needs to be made bigger, or made better, or made out of better stuff, or fail sooner, or a bit of all of those. It's a systemwide overhead like with the energy.
"Mere" weight is not free, even though it's on wheels.
Until we pass restrictive laws to force people to buy smaller cars they will not. Even high gas prices had a limited effect on consumer behavior.
The sad part for people like me who would like a nice smaller car, perhaps an EV, is the very limited selection.
There's no reason to make every little passenger sedan engine turbocharged, with GDI fuel injection, with cylinder deactivation, and with auto-stop just so they can sell more behemoths.
Take something like the Honda Fit - its price point meant that you could spend something like a thousand more and get a Civic. In order to go with the Fit, you either needed that small margin to matter a lot, or you just really had to want a cheaper car.
Economies of scale don't work here because of the chicken-and-egg problem, and possibly because size simply isn't as big of a driver of cost as labor and mandatory features. And you never really pay a non-monetary price for having a larger vehicle. We have a minivan and I never hit height maxes, never feel like it's too big to drive anywhere (except for Manhattan, haha).
Cheap interest and long terms probably shrunk the cost difference quite a bit too.
Safety of the passengers will be a battle you have to fight, particularly for people who spend significant time on the interstate.
Maybe it's different in Europe, dunno if it's a supply or demand thing but the US market notoriously does not offer the weaker, more fuel efficient motors. I just looked it up the other day; the Camry offers motors under 170HP for some markets but nothing under 200 in the US.
Overall, for a few thousand more, the civic is just simply a nicer car. If you went with the fit, you made significant sacrifices for those 'magic seats'
It's not like they can't do anything about the highly profitable situation they lobbied themself into.
We have a Chevy Bolt in the Colorado front range area...it's nominal 238-mile range (increased a bit after the battery recall) is good enough for almost everything, but I certainly wouldn't want it to be less than that. As-is, that range makes it risky to use that car to visit family in Wyoming. I don't think we are wrong to pay attention to range.
In most of the world, small nippy sporty cars are more desirable than lumbering 'Yank Tanks'.
That's the difference between https://carsales.pxcrush.net/carsales//cars/private/at3q087e... and this https://www.speednik.com/files/2023/04/that-was-then-this-is...
It seems that easy car rental could be the solution to both: use public transport / small car for day to day needs, rent a bigger car when you need to go with friends/extended family somewhere.
And yet it is only getting worse: in the recent years, it seems that Zipcar has very few cars available and a long queue; and no car rental agency in my area offers 6 or 7 seat cars. I wonder if this is a business decision because of lack of customers or some sort of government regulations thing?
For example, to address the front blind spot issue would mandating extra radars and front cameras (and the ensuing cost) be ok? Yes it is still penalizing large families but they may at least be getting a safety feature?
If you’re committed to 7+ seater vehicles after birthing a platoon I think the financial penalties of that decision were already understood at child number 4.
The 1990s RAV4 was small. The current one is almost 18 inches longer and 6.5 inches wider.
In the UK, Compact is considered slightly more towards 'family' sized, and we have a lot more subcompacts and minis,
Its a small SUV, but not a small car.
Public transport _can_ be good if you have a society that treats its poor well and highly respects and desires clean and good public transport and is willing to fund it.
During that same time period I used to commute to SF for work 1 week per month and used BART and public transit almost exclusively. Also never had that experience.
In both, I definitely SAW homeless people, some of whom were likely mentally ill, but seeing them and being harassed by them are totally different things. The latter is mainly fiction. By contrast, I’ve been harassed (at gunpoint) by middle-class “sane” drivers in a bout of road rage.
The explosion in vehicle size over the last 10 years in U.S is off-the-scale absurd, while per-capita fatal crashes have only gone UP over the same period[1].
1. https://www.iihs.org/topics/fatality-statistics/detail/yearl...
EDIT: You wouldn't believe how many GMC Yukons I see in my wealthy SF suburb that are used to shuffle 8 year-olds from school to soccer practice. For the uninitiated: https://www.carsized.com/en/cars/compare/ford-focus-2013-5-d...
Small cars are available, even in the US, but most people aren’t interested in buying them. There are lots of reasons for that. Unless you plan to get draconian about it, people would need a reason to favor small cars.
> So if they don’t need a larger car they shouldn’t have them?
That's nowhere in what I said or in the OP. The OP did talk about pulling "policy levers" to change incentives.
> Small cars are available, even in the US, but most people aren’t interested in buying them. There are lots of reasons for that. Unless you plan to get draconian about it, people would need a reason to favor small cars.
That's basically what the OP is all about.
This is what we’re afraid of. Those policies will cause immense harm and suffering to people who cannot simply buy the small EVs that policy makers want us to buy. The unintended consequences would be devastating to many.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/183657/average-size-of-a...
Doing a grocery shop with the entire family of 6 sounds stressful btw :)
I wonder how 6 billion other people manage to eat.
https://www.hrsa.gov/rural-health/about-us/what-is-rural
"Micro area (urban core of 10,000-49,9999 people)"
I apparently live in a rural area, Helena, MT. The state capital by the way.
You can look up if you are the 20% Rural or 80% Urban here: https://data.hrsa.gov/tools/rural-health
I say all this because I walk to the grocery store and bike to work. In a rural area no less!
Especially when you account for the cost of time, it's way cheaper to make a grocery haul to walmart every couple weeks given we cannot just 'pop by the shop' for milk and eggs.
This is also, I believe, why processed food is so popular here. It's shelf stable for weeks at a time whereas fresh fruit and veg are much more perishable.
Four billion of the top six billion live relatively very poorly.
Out of the 7.88 billion, the bottom two billion live in such horrid conditions as to have no regular access to fresh drinking water, routine medical care or indoor toilets at home.
The majority of all people on the planet still don't have access to functional indoor toilets at home, or otherwise have sanitary toilets at home.
Nearly one billion people are still open deficating as a routine. Did you know 35-40% of Laos households have no toilets? Information provided by UNICEF.
I'm willing to bet the majority (not all) of people on HN are oblivious to the actual state of the rest of the world, specifically the bottom four to five billion or so, and just how poorly they live day to day.
So to the question, how do they manage to eat? Food insecurity is still a top concern for the bottom half of the world's population. Four billion people roughly. And for the bottom couple billion people, it's a severe day to day concern.
It's such a serious problem on an ongoing, constant basis that a single war between Ukraine and Russia, is enough to put the basic food security of billions of poor people at risk.
No, but how do they do that without a $50,000 SUV? /s
These are things many people need to do multiple times a year.
If someone made something in-between, that doesn't need to be large overall but at least large enough in the space for the driver to acknowledge we're not all midgets, I'd gladly buy that. It's the same way with airline seating. Granting I'm a little bit of a special case because I'm missing two discs and have ten screws in my spine, but I find myself only flying first class not because I'm wealthy but because if I fly economy, I won't be able to stand up straight for three hours after the flight lands. If they sold something in-between, like say, economy seats as they existed 30 years ago, I'd gladly use that, too.
It is indeed possible - just shop or pack more efficiently :).
Now they look so grown up, pretty much like a Golf.
The new Polo (2018-) is now the size the Golf 5/6 was circa 2009 and thus is priced accordingly.
Their solution for our car market is to still produce the 2017 model and rebrand it as the Polo Vivo.
We have an old Mazda 5 micro-van that hits our requirements, but they no longer sell that in North America. So we either have to get something considerably larger or compromise.