Zaum | Hacker News Reader

Zaum

en.wikipedia.org

160 pointsareoform46 comments

My favorite poet of the Zaum is Daniïl Kharms... But not sure how much of his works were (or even can be meaningully) translated into English...

I guess he was technically founder of OBERUI (collaboration of real art) which was an off-shoot of Zaum.

He was making a living publishing children's literature, which is ironic, because he hated children. But he couldn't publish his Futurist works, because they were deemed to be anti-soviet.

In a special twist he was arrested for his children's works and not for his avant-garde writings.

He probably hated children even more after that.

His life story is very tragic, as it was for most people in the post-revolutionary times. His diaries were published and they are quite a harrowing read at times.

Of Kharms' works, I can not stop thinking for the last 10 years of the Knight (Рыцарь) story.

Written in soviet 1930-ies, reads horrifyingly similar to the todays reality.

Karms is definitely available in English. One of my MFA classmates did his graduation seminar on Karms.

Would be interesting to read and see how well it stacks up to the original.

I remember being quite surprised and somewhat disappointed after reading some of my favorite sci-fi in english, after many years.

Translators to Russian did a great job at adapting it and in some cases the translation was better than the original... Less dry..

The most famous translation into English is probably "Today I Wrote Nothing: The Selected Writings of Daniil Kharms" by Matvei Yankelevich. You can find it on Amazon and elsewhere.

Ian Frazier, a well known author and contributor to the New Yorker, also published "It Happened Like This" which has great original translations of stories and poems.

Finally, last year, my partner and I translated 8 of Kharms' short pieces and recorded them as a spoken jazz album. If you're into Kharms and/or Ken Nordine-like absurd vocal jazz, you might like it -> https://thedaniilkharms.bandcamp.com (and on Spotify, etc.) You can also read the album's translations by hovering over the song titles and clicking "Lyrics"

I assume you speak Russian -- you might be interested in this article about the album/translation process: https://www22.zvuki.ru/R/P/82795/

Thanks, great interview!

Loved Kharms forever, will definitely check out your album (and all the other excellent references linked from the interview)

For anyone else interested, though Gregory streaming links for the album here: https://songwhip.com/thedaniilkharms/postgogol-world

Thank you! I also forgot to link to a music video that a close friend made:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Aoc2lAXP9s

It's a stop motion linocut... Each animated frame took him hours to make. A gem!

After listening to the first couple of tracks, I can't help but be reminded of Ежи и Петруччо, if you haven't run across them, you might enjoy this...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FF168042ZEs

Very cool, thanks.

Auktyon (a Russian alternative rock band) has an album of songs based on poems by Russian futurist Velimir Khlebnikov. [1]

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YFDBG7sGDRU

As Wikipedia points out, Lewis Carroll's https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jabberwocky has very similar spirit.

A Russian joke that comes to mind:

A monkey enters a restaurant and orders a short of vodka and a large bowl of sour cream. They serve. The monkey drinks the vodka and puts the bowl of sour cream over on his head.

- What are you doing? - I'm so mysterious.

This has strong Penguin of Doom!!1! energy Holds up spork

The version I know ends "I get real crazy when I'm fucked up".

To deconstruct the joke: the punchline is absurd because the monkey ordered the sour cream when it was completely sober, thus setting itself up for the craziness in the first place.

that's a way better version

Reminds me of my favorite piece of gobbledygook, the Codex Seraphinianus! [0] [1]

Perusing it is a fun way to let your mind untether from the usual symbolicism [sic], coherence, and meaning encountered in daily life.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Codex_Seraphinianus

[1] https://www.wired.com/2013/10/codex-seraphinianus-interview/

I have both a first edition and the 40th annual edition.

It's a beautiful book that invites so much imagination and wonder. Serafini said that creating it was like a daily handwritten glossolalia.

The Wikipedia article is very vague on what Zaum even is. But it does compare it to the Dada moveme minus the silliness. Dada was mainly about nonsense poetry and breaking literary conventions. It originated from Switzerland during the first world war, so around the same time as Zaum.

So basically pre-internet shitpost and absurd memes?

Kind of, but the aim is to deconstruct language and thought patterns, instead of pissing off people. As if Zen monks were doing it.

A similar movement happened in Germany a tad later (ca. 1920-1930) with Kurt Schwitters and his Ursonate one of the most prominent examples.

Here is a recital of the poem by the author himself from 1932 [1]. Don't worry if you don't know German, you wouldn't understand more if you did anyway.

[1] https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=1qLKu3R8no4&pp=ygUPS3VydCBTY2h...

I am surprised zaum, as a Futurism derivation, "cannot contain any onomatopoeia". Probably the most famous poem by Marinetti is "Zang Tumb Tumb"[0] which is named in pure onomatopoeia :)

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zang_Tumb_Tumb

Russian Futurism and Italian Futurism are related but diverged in a number of ways. Worthwhile but nigh-infinite clickhole, made more impressive by the fact that Russian Futurists weren't around for all that long.

What clashes here of wills gen wonts, oystrygods gaggin fishy- gods!

Is the name of Disco Elysium developer, ZA/UM, a reference to this?

Most likely, yes.

It's like the jabberwocky but it takes itself a lot more seriously.

Can someone explain in layman terms what this is? Article introduces even more new terms and is clearly not for people in the know. Comments here didn't help either. Is it a poem of made up words to express something? Is it a language of made up sounds? What is it?

cf https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abstract_comics for a visual equivalent?

Chatgpt + Zaum = ? Let's see...

Zaliv blik flur, Oomna ziv tragan, Glorb tist eelv, Shlorm briglat vrang.

After a certain point even this hits uncanny valley - I find the above a bit too forceful in the nonsense and overall too on the nose that it loses its playful quality. I’m saying that after comparing the above to something like the first two lines of Jabberwocky:

  Twas bryllyg, and þe slythy toves
  Did gyre and gymble in þe wabe:
  All mimsy were þe borogoves;
  And þe mome raths outgrabe.

Note that “þe” is to be read as “the”

Frankly, to me this is a complete nonsense, unironically. I feel nothing reading it, and also I find that looking for a meaning (which authors claim there is, because their nonsense ought to be an intuitional proto-language) isn’t more useful than making sense of dreams or drug-induced trips. For some reason, which stays mysterious to me, many russian literature/culture actors were borderline… esoteric(?). Iow, on dope. This reflects in their articles, speeches, ideas. Zaum is one of these reflections. The modern russian term for things like that is “sheeza”, roughly meaning “of schizophrenic origin”. This all starts making sense only when you get fucked up enough.

Also, and this is absolutely my own perception, political movements here opposed to you know what suffer from this culture, because it’s a little disconnected, so to say. The recent century is not only a result of continuous oppression, but also some ancient, mysteriously imprinted delusion, only affecting those in higher cultural planes. As a result, no change here does good, while no change is bad. Damned in both cases. Idk if by reading russian books you’d get a glimpse into this, maybe it’s my own sheeza.

(Keep in mind that I’m a practical peasant who doesn’t get art when judging.)

Surprised there were so many comments here as I have literally no idea what the Wikipedia article is talking about even after reading it.

I went to ChatGPT to create some examples of zaum for worldwide brands, it helped a little. I still don't get it - I have a feeling ChatGPT doesn't get it either - it seems to be using florid words to evoke a feeling, absent of meaning (or with literal meaning taking a back seat to the ambiance). In other words, the literary/poetic version of a soundscape. Is that it?

Toyota: Steel dreams meld under mechanical constellations, gears and pistons dance in orchestrated harmony, roads unspool like cosmic ribbons before tire constellations, the hum of engines resonates in the cosmic silence, where the journey's tapestry unfurls with each turn of the terrestrial spindle.

McDonalds: Golden arches stand as sentinels of the fast-food cosmos, sizzling constellations of patties and fries twirl in a symphony of flavors, neon galaxies beckon from drive-thru dimensions, a celestial menu unfurls, where taste and nostalgia collide in cosmic bites of familiarity and delight.

Edit: tried McDonalds again with made up words-

  Goldever Crispiflame, a sizzle-gleam delight,
  Twirls in FlavoFog, a crispy zephyr's flight.
  McFizzleGems dance, zaum's embrace, anew,
  Bubbly bounceluxe, in zaum sauce hue.
  
  Flavorbloom sazzy, twixt bunlace dream,
  Zaumshakes laughter, a dessert supreme.
  Munchkinzest zorbits, in flavorfizz mirth,
  Zaumagic savorzest, ignites joy's rebirth.

I as well have no idea what this is, but reading more about it, I imagine it makes more sense for people in the Russian speaking community.

Edit:

> Toyota: Steel dreams meld under mechanical constellations, gears and pistons dance in orchestrated harmony, roads unspool like cosmic ribbons before tire constellations, the hum of engines resonates in the cosmic silence, where the journey's tapestry unfurls with each turn of the terrestrial spindle.

That's exactly how I feel when I drive my '99 Corolla, lol

I had to switch to russian version to make sense of it, so it’s probably the article (or translation) quality itself.

Guessing OP is a (Disco Eylisem)[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disco_Elysium] fan.

Disco Elysium has a tragic recent history worthy of a post of its own

I also thought this was about ZA/UM, didn't know about the recent events... Yes, that would be an interesting post.

people make games have a deep dive on the subject and boy howdy is it a mess

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JGIGA8taN-M

More interesting than last time? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35748484

3 points, 3 months ago, 0 comments. Nobody saw it last time.

Evidently, yes

Reply on news.ycombinator.com