Comment by myshpa | Hacker News Reader

Comment by myshpa | Hacker News Reader

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https://ourworldindata.org/land-use

We already get 82% calories and 63% proteins from plants, but animal agriculture takes 80-90% of all agriculture lands, and is a leading driver of deforestation, biodiversity loss and droughts.

https://talkveganto.me/en/facts/suitable-for-all/

We don't need to eat animal products for sustenance or health.

https://ourworldindata.org/land-use-diets

Animals are really inefficient in converting plants into calories.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5899434/

"Plant-based replacements for each of the major animal categories in the United States (beef, pork, dairy, poultry, and eggs) can produce twofold to 20-fold more nutritionally similar food per unit cropland. Replacing all animal-based items with plant-based replacement diets can add enough food to feed 350 million additional people, more than the expected benefits of eliminating all supply chain food loss."

https://www.wri.org/data/animal-based-foods-are-more-resourc...

Animal-based Foods are More Resource-Intensive than Plant-Based Foods

https://www.eurekalert.org/news-releases/917471

Feeding 10 billion people by 2050 within planetary limits may be achievable

A global shift towards healthy and more plant-based diets, halving food loss and waste, and improving farming practices and technologies are required to feed 10 billion people sustainably by 2050, a new study finds.

Ruminant animals are very efficient at converting plants into high quality protein. Getting the optimal mix of essential amino acids is crucial for health. This is just as important as number of calories.

https://peterattiamd.com/donlayman/

Most cows raised in the US are not raised on grazed grass, they're raised on corn and soy. That process is very inefficient when compared to growing plants that we eat directly.

And we don't really need an optimal mix of amino acids as long as we get enough amino acids. Fretting about precisely balancing the mix is unnecessary.

Nope, you've got that mostly wrong from a dietary standpoint. It's really tough to get enough leucine, lysine, and methionine for optimal health and building muscle while eating a plant based diet without also getting too many carbohydrates. The ratios in most plants are not great. I mean in principle it can be done through careful meal planning (and perhaps some supplements) but most people just don't have time for that.

Seriously, listen to the interview I linked above and then read the referenced journal articles. That will clear up some of your misconceptions.

I do agree that we should shift away from monocrop agriculture to produce fodder for cattle feedlots and toward regenerative agriculture. Some farms are now doing that with productivity comparable to factory farming so it will be interesting to see if that model can be scaled up enough to cheaply feed a huge population.

> I mean in principle it can be done through careful meal planning (and perhaps some supplements) but most people just don't have time for that.

That's not true.

25% of your plate should be proteins (lentils, beans, tofu, tempeh, seitan, peas ...), 25% whole grains (brown rice, quinoa, whole wheat bread, whole grain pasta), 30% vegetables (variety of colors to get different nutrients), 10-15% fruit (apple, banana, berries), 5-10% fats (avocados, nuts, seeds, or a drizzle of olive oil).

That's it. Variety is the key. The only supplement you need is B12, which you can get from either pills or fortified milk, yogurt, cereals, and other sources.

Nope. You have no idea what my nutritional needs are, nor are you numbers even close to optimal. To start with, the notion of dividing a plate based on percentages is ridiculous and displays a clear ignorance of the basics. For optimal performance we need at least a certain minimum amount of high quality protein (right essential amino acids) based on a ratio to lean body mass regardless of how much we are eating. That's a fixed number, not a percentage.

It's sad how confidently wrong many HN users are whenever we have discussions about diet and nutrition. People read something somewhere that aligns with their preconceived biases and then they repeat it back without doing real validation.

If your want to see empirically what actually works then ignore the gurus and junk science you see online, and instead look at the diets of masters athletes who have been competing at high levels for decades (including recovering from injuries). The percentages on their plates are substantially different from your numbers, and the majority eat a significant amount of animal products.

I'd wager that you're a bodybuilder. Those folks are consistently at the forefront of their nutrition game.

> instead look at the diets of masters athletes who have been competing at high levels for decades (including recovering from injuries).

https://pha.berkeley.edu/2021/04/11/benefits-of-plant-based-...

Research studies have found that plant-based diets are effective in decreasing weight, creating leaner bodies through decreases in body fat percentage, and enhancing athletic endurance

https://www.runnersworld.com/news/a25797700/plant-based-diet...

New Research Shows a Plant-Based Diet Can Improve Recovery Time - It’s good for your cardiovascular health, too—especially if you usually run long distances

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30634559/

Plant-based diets appear to reduce cardiovascular risk factors and offer potential performance advantages for endurance athletes by improving body composition, glycogen storage, vascular function, and reducing oxidative stress.

https://www.veganfoodandliving.com/features/vegan-athletes-p...

"This is a message to all those out there who think that you need animal products to be fit and strong. Almost two years after becoming vegan I am stronger than ever before and I am still improving day by day."

“Don’t listen to those self-proclaimed nutrition gurus and the supplement industry trying to tell you that you need meat, eggs and dairy to get enough protein."

“There are plenty of plant-based protein sources and your body is going to thank you for stopping feeding it with dead food. Go vegan and feel the power" - Patrik Bouboumian

> https://peterattiamd.com/donlayman/

"Don currently consults for many food industry companies including Kraft, Nestle, Hershey, the Dairy Council, the Egg Board, and the Beef Board"

I think that this Don who's cozying up with all the big players in the food industry must be a real beacon of impartiality and enlightenment. Who needs objectivity when you can have a buffet of conflicting interests?

>> You have no idea what my nutritional needs are

You are a human being. We all know what your nutritional needs are. Since you are posting here, we now also know your preferences. But they don’t require spending 1000s of acres of agricultural land and carbon emissions to satisfy.

The real solution here is of course a carbon tax to capture the externalities of soy- and corn-based ranching. A “Pig”-ouvian tax, if you will. Alas sentiments like yours are why we can’t solve problems in an efficient way.

> Ruminant animals are very efficient at converting plants into high quality protein

https://ourworldindata.org/land-use-diets

"The land use of livestock is so large because it takes around 100 times as much land to produce a kilocalorie of beef or lamb versus plant-based alternatives. The same is also true for protein – it takes almost 100 times as much land to produce a gram of protein from beef or lamb, versus peas or tofu."

"Beef has an energy efficiency of about 2%. This means that for every 100 kilocalories you feed a cow, you only get 2 kilocalories of beef back."

> Getting the optimal mix of essential amino acids is crucial for health

Animals have nothing that we couldn't obtain from plants.

It is the position of the American Dietetic Association that appropriately planned vegetarian diets, including total vegetarian or vegan diets, are healthful, nutritionally adequate, and may provide health benefits in the prevention and treatment of certain diseases. Well-planned vegetarian diets are appropriate for individuals during all stages of the life cycle, including pregnancy, lactation, infancy, childhood, and adolescence, and for athletes.

- American Dietetic Association

A vegetarian or vegan diet can be suitable for everyone, regardless of their age.

- NHS UK

It is possible to follow a well-planned, plant-based, vegan friendly diet that supports healthy living in people of all ages, and during pregnancy and breastfeeding.

- British Dietetic Association

For adults, protein from two or more plant groups daily is like to be adequate.

- World Health Organisation

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