Railway Safety Posters (2022) | Hacker News Reader

Railway Safety Posters (2022)

thaitrainguide.com

162 pointsDemiGuru89 comments

Network Rail in the UK has many rather scary safety videos.

Here's one that's relevant to the SF bay area.[1] It's about the dangers of aluminum Mylar helium balloons near overhead wire. Those balloons are conductors, and so are their shiny metallized ribbons. If one of those things gets close to high voltage overhead wire, the holder will be electrocuted. In wet weather, ordinary non-metallic strings become conductive. Network Rail has deaths this way regularly.

The SF bay area now needs that warning. CALTRAIN electrification is close to power-up. That's expected in Q4 2023.[2] This is the first time the SF Bay Area has had 25KV overhead wire close to ground level. (SF Muni is 600VDC. BART is 1000VDC. Most power transmission lines at higher voltages are much higher up than railroad power. Caltrain wire is at roughly 5 meters.)

Balloons on long strings are now deadly near the tracks. Tell people this.

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=udaS3NDCkk0

[2] https://www.caltrain.com/projects/electrification/constructi...

Are the rail safety videos popping up recently in response to teens videoing themselves on rails for likes?

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/us-news/teens-electrocuted-600...

> Network Rail has deaths this way regularly.

No they don’t? But they do make the trains late.

My favorite rail poster of all time was an Indian dual-use one from the early 80s. It had a picture of mum, dad, daughter, and son walking across the platform together each carrying a single suitcase.

Along the top it said "Travel Light: Plan your Trip."

Across the bottom it said "Plan your Family".

I so wanted to take a photo but no cameras were allowed in the train station.

Why were no cameras allowed in the train station?

There are vague federal anti-terrorism statues that disallow photography of "critical infrastructure". Mostly used by guards to bully anybody they are suspicious of for whatever reason. You probably won't be affected by these unless you happen to look middle eastern or dark skinned. These laws also are also applied inconsistently to bridges, power plants, dams, government buildings, and the like.

I'm not dark-skinned or Middle Eastern, but I was stopped and questioned by transit police at Penn Station in New York for taking a photo of an OS error message on a train status monitor. About 2010 or so?

They seemed to be alarmed by anyone taking an unconventional interest in station infrastructure.

I'm surprised that happened in Penn Station because I'd expect New York has enough nerds that Police are used to the fact that yeah, there are infrastructure nerds, and they think BSODs are worth photographing, and some of them are connected. I guess it depends what "stopped and questioned" means. I've had cops stop me and informally ask me about stuff and it didn't bother me, whereas if they wanna see my ID, search my stuff, now I have a problem with it and I want proper paperwork because somebody is getting a formal complaint.

Is it considered terrorism if you fix their BSOD

This is India, most people are dark-skinned.

India colorism and casteism is sometimes worse than most racism in western culture.

When high caste neighbor of my great-grandfather in Gulbarga used to treat him as outcaste when he touched her pots and water jugs it was because he was Muslim (well, Ahmedi more specifically, but Muslim as far as she was concerned)

Year 2007, I was visiting US for first time. Found Atlanta fascinating. Clicking pictures everywhere.

Waiting for metro (marta?) I took video of a train arriving. The conductor? of the train stepped out , said that's not allowed, and insisted I delete it immediately.

I'm guessing post 9/11 mania.

There were a lot of attempted strange policies about photography post 9/11 in the US. Some stuck around for longer than others. They were all absurd, not like you have to take photos to case the joint / before you set off a bomb.

At one point Amtrak had a photo contest to take photos of their trains and submit them, and a guy was arrested by Amtrack police for doing just that.

What is interesting is that after any attack one of the first requests is for people who took photos that day to turn them in so they can see if there was anything important captured.

> At one point Amtrak had a photo contest to take photos of their trains and submit them, and a guy was arrested by Amtrack police for doing just that.

And Stephen Colbert did a great comedy episode about this exact problem. https://www.cc.com/video/9kc6le/the-colbert-report-nailed-em... , https://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/28/nyregion/28about.html

I wonder if they ever got further response.

That I know of, photography is still prohibited on the MBTA in Boston, but you see it all the time.

I think the Overton window has shifted to the point where the ability to take a photo is now assumed to be a given, and enforcement otherwise would be difficult because "everybody's doing it".

It's generally legal anywhere in the US you don't have a reasonable expectation of privacy (like publicly accessible spaces)

It sounds like you're right, at least from MBTA's perspective: [0].

I'm curious if a court has upheld that, though. MBTA is at a funny nexus of public and private organization, so personally speaking I'd like to see the First Amendment prevail.

[0] https://mbtarealty.com/filming-and-sampling/

The T backtracked on that a while back: https://patch.com/massachusetts/northend/yes-you-can-take-ph...

(the original MBTA link is long gone)

But why?

A platform conductor once (maybe 15 years ago) explained to me that taking photos of the train entering the station was forbidden because the flash could distract the train operator at the crucial moment where a person falls into the trench. There was a sign posted, that's why I asked.

Back then I thought this to be a very rare edge-case and it seems to be. But since then I personally witnessed persons falling into the trench twice. Furthermore I learned that railway and train operators take security pretty seriously, because anything that could go wrong probably kills you.

It's interesting how many anti-photography that are actually just anti-flash rules, and they're becoming close to obsolete. Today's cell phone cameras handle low light conditions so well that the flash is hardly ever used.

True! But there are also a lot of people who let their flash settings on auto all the time. I guess a LED flash is just as distracting as an old-school flash, even if it is not as bright.

Somewhat similarly, you can take a bicycle onto a UK train platform (and onto the train), but the lights have to be off, so a driver doesn't see your red light and slam on the brakes.

I don't know.

One hypothesis is he didn't like my skin color. Maybe it was too soon after 2001.

And after the 2004 train bombings in Madrid

Apparently railways are considered military infrastructure at time of war.

British era rule which was rescinded some years ago.

The 'Dumb Ways to Die' video from a few years ago, from Australia, was quite funny and memorable (which I think is the aim for these campaigns):

https://youtu.be/IJNR2EpS0jw

Be safe around trains.

Iceland has some PSAs running right now about e-scooter safety that have a similar vibe: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VSUNZ3quITA&list=PL3prAqz9YE...

It's easy to laugh at the Thai posters for how obvious the precautions seem. But this is a good reminder that there are new technologies today for which we don't yet know the "obvious" precautions.

I didn't feel the precautions were particularly obvious. Sure, maybe individually. But in total, I think they serve as a very potent reminder: trains are dangerous, and your mindset around them should be one of precaution.

In many places like Thailand and India, trains are a much more commonplace part of everyday life. Familiarity breeds complacency, and these posters serve as a potent reminder of how dangerous trains actually are.

The same dynamic exists with cars in the US. One thing I've found helpful is that, every time I get into a car, I just take a single deep breath and remind myself I am piloting a potentially lethal machine. I find it really helps put me in the right mindset to take better appropriate care when I'm driving.

Maybe, compared to those in more developed countries, more of the trains in Thailand and India run through rights-of-way with less separation from places that people and animals are commonly found? Or maybe more of their crossings used to lack warning equipment and barriers?

This is more like it. The Thai rail network is not that extensive so trains probably aren’t part of daily life for that many. India has a huge rail network. In both cases, though, train tracks are much more accessible than in developed countries and it’s common to see trains clanking right past people walking along. In India people happily walk across tracks at stations and hang off the side of moving trains.

Compare this to the UK and Switzerland, two places I have lived with extensive rail networks. I can’t think of anywhere that the train tracks aren’t clearly separated from everything else — either by fencing or raised platforms or level crossings with barriers. I have never had to think “better look out for a train” living in these places.

Edit: Zurich does have a freight train that runs down an inner-city street a couple of times a day. It goes very slowly and has many staff monitoring:

https://youtu.be/RWT58TBAdEw

I grew up on the south side of Chicago, where there are tracks at ground level with no barriers. How to walk along and cross railroad tracks was covered in first grade. Chicago has so much railroad track that this was as important as how to cross streets. The tracks near where I grew up are still unfenced and at ground level.

Many people are unaware that railroad switches are not only remotely controlled, but powerful enough to crush ballast gravel that gets in the way.

Damn, Happy Tree Friends vibes...

Doesn't compare to Roald Dahl's guide to train safety: https://tygertale.com/2014/06/25/final-warning-roald-dahls-g...

The Quenin Blake illustrations of decapitation really hit the point home.

That's a classic of course, but for me, these exaggerated cartoon/comic style depictions are not as disturbing as the more realistic Thai posters, because they make you think of other classics (Road Runner & Coyote, Tom & Jerry etc.) where the protagonists regularly suffer gruesome mutilations, only to be perfectly fine again in the next scene...

I was just thinking about this. Thanks for digging it out

To be fair BPI were pretty good at scaring the absolute shit out of the general British public in the seventies https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m0xmSV6aq0g&t=2s

Especially terrifying, in modern light, to watch Jimmy Saville narrate child safety videos.

For sheer shock value, little can beat the texting-while-driving one. No direct link but you can google "british texting while driving ad". The NZ safe driving ads are also really something. "new zealand safe driving shock ads" brings up one that really triggers, but then again, both the above particularly work if you're a parent.

I assume https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R0LCmStIw9E is the one you are thinking of (there was a shorter version that aired in TV ad breaks).

The Think! campaign was always pretty on-the-nose, as you need to be sometimes to get these messages across. The seatbelt and in-town speed limit ones stick in the mind too: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mKHY69AFstE and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jDpOAXfangI respectively.

The memorably stark tone and the frequency they were on TV made these spots ripe for parody, for example this one from Monkey Dust: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PsOk9Ln1qOY

I really like this PSA from the British THINK!, juxtaposing celebration and darkness: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CERT0xNFGo4

Wow, that first one is genuinely horrific, I can’t believe they had the guts to release something so strong. Glad they did though, it probably saved a ton of lives.

I'm partial to this Irish one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LNL6t-Eu-IY

For shock value, the Canadian workplace safety ad featuring the chef comes pretty close: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=noFCekWiUGE

The New Zealand ACC public safety advertising campaign was gold.

My favourite is the one at 1min 30 but all are complete classics here.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=105&v=9ciomPP8MyE&...

This terrified me for decades after seeing on tea-time TV: http://www.weirdretro.org.uk/the-finishing-line-the-banned-p...

In France, during the late 90ies/early 00ies, we got a bunch of "quite direct" Road Safety ads.

The one that traumatized me the most as a child was:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gpNMrcgiAdw

While UK struggled to make people understand that using the Ticket Machine was a piece of cake!

https://www.flickr.com/photos/brajeshwar/19704146340/in/date...

For forklifts, see: Staplerfahrer Klaus <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=psAWGv5O7Zs>

(If you have not seen it, I implore you to watch the entire thing.)

I like how the last few seem like a sabotage manual in disguise. ̶D̶o̶ ̶n̶o̶t̶ throw stones at the trains. ̶D̶o̶ ̶n̶o̶t̶ destroy communication equipment. ̶D̶o̶ ̶n̶o̶t̶ bring animals to tend on the tracks. Makes sense since these were from 1965–1968: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_involving_Thailan...

Does telling someone who might lie on the tracks to not lie on the tracks have much of an effect?

Are there people who lie on train tracks who are unaware that doing so is dangerous?

I feel this misunderstands the posters way of working in the same way that a lot of people misunderstand how ads operate: Just because you don't suddenly get an irresistible urge to drink a gallon of Coca Cola after seeing an ad for it does not mean it wasn't effective-- you are not looking to cause monumental shifts in your targets worldview or values, instead you slowly nudge all their future decisionmaking in a favorable direction... slightly.

I’d like to see the numbers. Maimed and deaths pre poster and post poster. I have a sneaking idea that the numbers will be similar.

When you’re tired, it’s comforting to lay on a track rather than hard ground. The wood provides a stable level surface, and tracks are cleaned regularly. You can doze off for a nap if you know trains don’t regularly come by.

Thank you for providing an alternative view of the world, it would never have occurred to me otherwise! Enjoy your nap and stay safe.

You what

While driving in a remote area of India late one night, I came across an entire family (from the Dalit caste) sleeping in the middle of the road. Either they had no home, or they were travelling. The location was warm (the asphalt held daytime heat) and clean (the road being bordered by dense jungle). Given the context, it made sense.

Love the contrast with the previous article on the same site: https://www.thaitrainguide.com/2022/06/05/day-trip-to-the-ma...

Clearly these 1960s posters were not very effective.

Just in general, while it's not easy to notice in these specific posters, Thai art is absolutely incredible. It's strikingly and fundamentally different from the art in the West. If you ever have the chance to visit Thailand, visit their contemporary art galleries.

Can you recommend some galleries in Bangkok? I'm visiting in November. I already have MOCA on my list, is that enough or should I plan more?

A little while since I've been, so I recommend first checking out TCDC: https://www.tcdc.or.th/ then asking around for other fresh exhibits in the area

Reminds me of this old favorite, Chraňte Děti. http://cardhouse.com/a/distress/distress.htm

The one with the bridge reminds me of the trestle scene in "Stand by Me".

Anybody who's ever been a youth counselor anywhere in the world can sympathize.

"Don't play Frogger with real cars."

"Don't shoot Roman Candles at each other."

"Don't drink laundry detergent."

This was a big improvement over the usual walls of text we were seeing back in 2020:

https://www.who.int/images/default-source/wpro/countries/mal...

Reminds me of my favorite high-voltage warning label:

> DANGER: NOT ONLY WILL THIS KILL YOU, IT WILL HURT THE WHOLE TIME YOU'RE DYING

The “Don’t stand on the steps” poster sure looks like the other passenger threw him from the train. But resisting throwing out other passengers is also good advice.

The Thai anti-smoking ads are pretty straightforward/gruesome as well, and cigarette companies are required to include them on their packaging.

There's one about giving your dog lung cancer which is pretty hard to forget

Just a benign observation: The list starts with brutal and graphic, going progressively benign to harmless ones. Shock effect expected.

This is hilarious because Thai trains are anything BUT fast.

I remember a Thai train slowing to a near standstill, followed by an excessive tilt to the side for a couple car lengths of movement, then back up to speed.

Also remember lines of Thai people being stopped by a guard with a machine gun for searches while my pale colored wife and I were waved right through into the train station.

I would like to go back to Thailand it was a fantastic vacation.

All the more likely to underestimate the danger.

We are not good at estimating the speed of large objects because so much of our perception of the speed of objects happens in "units of relative length over time". When a small dog walks beside a horse the dog will appear much faster.

(2022)

We need a poster for here in Oregon to inform the public that they should shouldn’t shamble into the road without looking, and should cross with due haste.

You’d think this was something to learn as a two year old, but I guess not.

Why? Humans were here first, the cars should adapt to the existing presence of humans. "Jay walking" is a way for car makers to pretend that the problem they're causing is someone else's fault.

I wonder how many ways these could get attacked in modern litigation culture. I can think of two.

1. The graphical injuries shown are an admission by the railway company that such injuries can happen, increasing its liability when something does.

2. The graphical nature of the posters could "trigger" traumatic experiences in someone...

Generally modern litigation assume you follow the following steps: design the problem out, guard it out, then warn it out. Those are ordered steps, so if you can fix the problem with a different design you can't put guards on and call it good, but if there is danger remaining after looking at the design and adding guards then a warning sign is a way out of liability. Many of the dangers listed cannot be solved with a design or guards, so signs noting the danger are the correct response and will be used in court to show they knew of the danger and tried their best to prevent it in the only way left.

Note that these are from the mid 1960s - there is technology today to design out some of those hazards that didn't exist then. Platform screen doors for example didn't exist back then, but because they do now you can no longer warn about someone getting to close to the platform edge, you need to design it out by adding those doors (such doors do not work on curved platforms so signs are still useful for some really old stations that are impossible to remodel). For all the others you have a good case against the railroad if you get hit by a train since they should have doors, fences, and quad arm crossing guards which by design make it nearly impossible to get on the track and thus there is no danger of getting hit.

> such doors do not work on curved platforms so signs are still useful for some really old stations that are impossible to remodel

They also don't work if you've got multiple types of rolling stock with incompatible door layouts, and ideally you'll also need Automatic Train Operation – while having platform screen doors together with manual driving isn't impossible (compare the Jubilee Line in London between 1999 and 2011), it's not ideal and likely costs some capacity due to the more careful driving required for stopping accurately enough.

Are you literally making up a guy to get mad at here? There are still intense and even gruesome safety PSAs all over the world.

This is the reason Americans are losing their edge. There is heavy risk aversion. It is a cultural dead-end. Risk needs to be counterbalanced by securities, but risk cannot altogether be avoided. Avoiding risk has a very heavy intended punishment.

The other side of the same coin is also not good, to take too much risk. But all in all, current American culture looks insane from a distance. Especially concerning how kids are reared. Recipe for drug addiction and depressions.

> The graphical nature of the posters

No country’s media takes “if it bleeds it leads” quite as seriously as muang Thai, which features gore as front page news very regularly, and if they censored a particularly gory one, you can be sure your neighbour will post the uncensored version on FB.

Literally the only thing more compelling to a Thai newspaper reader is a photo of a staged crime re-enactment with the suspect surrounded by policemen and various people pointing at important things.

Have you been to Thailand?

Nobody is going to court for triggering in Thailand.

The insane culture of litigation in USA is very much a USA thing.

Also the simple PR / marketing issue... Discouraging customers and making more more NIMBY activity

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