It's depressing how many Americans and Europeans seem utterly allergic to any kind of nuanced discussion or deeper understanding of China. I think the same applies to the former USSR. I'm not sure why this is.
- People in China who choose or are allowed to bypass the GFW
- People who decided to leave China, or whose families decided to leave
- People who decided to learn Chinese
There can be a political motivation for all three of these.
There are not really insiders willing to offer those nuanced opinions. Instead it’s up to the rest of the world to figure out what’s true and what’s not, what’s omitted, how to reconcile the two differing opinions, but without the context.
And I don’t agree that the same applies to the USSR in the modern era. I thought it was common knowledge that in post-soviet countries a lot of especially older folks held mixed opinions on the USSR (liking the safety net and sense of personal security, hating the shortages and queues, liking the international prominence, hating the corruption, etc).
Are there examples of people who are neither or both?
In any case it’s rare for either of these groups to be fully candid with non-Chinese, or at least bold enough about it to broadcast is via eg news media, anyway because of the cultural taboo on discussing politics and risk of negatively affecting relatives back in China.
As a result, it's usually Chinese propaganda accounts or westerners with varying degrees of China experience you're exposed to.
The USSR is obviously a different situation.
investments of either time or effort, let alone both, are far less likely without that.
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35221742
And even the ones that were about COVID weren't really about COVID, they were about the consequences of the totalitarian response laying bare the lack of social contact and waking them up to what was possible. COVID was the trigger but it could have been anything and they know it now, essentially.
Do we have a nuanced discussion or deeper understanding of iran? Libya? Vietnam? Ethiopia? Myamnar? Niger? Of course not. People just follow state propaganda. Doesn't matter who it is, americans, europeans, chinese, russians, etc.
Besides, nuanced discussion or deeper understanding of china wouldn't change the geopolitical realities of the situation. Whether it was the ussr, ottoman empire, japanese empire, etc, our enemies have to be caricatured and destroyed.
The real question is why the china, ussr, ottoman empire, japanese, etc aren't doing or didn't do the same. Why is it that china or the chinese are so desperate for american approval or understanding? While we don't give a shit whether the chinese have a nuanced discussion or deeper understanding about us.
They are?
Obviously it would be ideal to learn from the good aspects of even the most evil totalitarian regimes, but in practice it's easier to wrap the whole nationalist/collectivist/communist idea-space up in a bundle and throw it out as one, at least in conversations with strangers of unclear motives.