Ask HN: I desperately want a solo business

I think you should consider the option that your friend got extremely lucky. Finding a SaaS idea that works, generates 6-7 figures in the 1st year, can be run solo, doesn't put high demands.and pressure (billing, uptime, legal) on that solo founder sounds extremely unlikely. Each of those is like a 1/100 multiplier..

i agree, if it was that easy…

I have recreated his results by more than an order of magnitude, more than once. In each case it was a 2 man team, and most recently 3 people. It’s most certainly not luck (I have access to the same trends and information, and the same internet as everyone else).

With that’s said they’re not technically saas (recurring payments for software service) but rather just various businesses in industries across the board

the most money is made doing the mundane from what I've found. The industries that aren't glamorous.

Also, my friend group, all entrepreneurs, have similar results.

I don't know this guy... and if you can get get over his unpleasant "guru" angle... go look at the creator of RemoteOK. He repeatedly creates businesses that succeed over and over, using the same formula.

A FOAF made millions (maybe 10's of millions) importing/exporting heavy machinery with basically nothing more than a phone.

You have to know where to look, and what trends to pick up on, and after that it seems quite easy, albeit hard to explain as a process. Or something I could repeat on command. It's very timing dependent, dependent on consistent trial and error, and you need to be surrounded by people who are on the same page where you can work together very quickly when you see something that might be a success.

> the most money is made doing the mundane from what I've found. The industries that aren't glamorous.

Would you be able to share an example of what were those industries/businesses, perhaps ideas that you already pursued and moved on from?

I too feel the people who attribute such successes to luck are missing something.

I’ve had people tell me that a lot of the things I achieved professionally in life (being able to successfully immigrate to the US from another country, get tech jobs in Silicon Valley including Google, get out-of-band compensation, work as an early employee at a unicorn, etc) were due to pure luck, but I don’t believe it. I see so many people around me who followed the same path, and it was perhaps 80% determination and 20% luck.

Things like insurance, payment processing, etc.

There is an entire world 99% of people aren't aware of. I'm grateful my eyes were opened to this world many years ago. I have never taken outside funding, I don't deal with investors, I don't deal with other partners. Just the same business partner I have had for 10 years. I've probably started over 100 projects at this point.

Wow, that's fantastic, and I believe everything you said. I would have no problem working on a traditional, even boring, industry. I hope to be able to find a path outside of beyond Corporate America asap.

Hi, is there a way to reach out to you?

If you don't mind sharing, could you elaborate on the process of finding these ideas and how to look for them and validate them? Thank you!

Yes, the grass really is greener over here, this IS the dream. I quit my job in 2017 to start a SaaS, and even though it's been really tough, as the first idea did not work out and I went bankrupt and had to return to the job/freelance market at one point, I eventually quit again and ended up starting a profitable solo SaaS about 2 years ago, and now I consider it one of the greatest blessings in my life. Dealing only with customers and code means no bullshit, only the pure joy of actual work, plus the freedom and independence of being able to live anywhere (at one point I lived on a small rural farm in the Carpathian Mountains of Ukraine, which was fantastic). My social circles are entirely outside of work, and it is so refreshing to associate with communities and friends not in the tech bubble.

If you want a community of like-minded people to support you, consider TinySeed capital, they invest in solo SaaS founders, although you need to have some traction. Also happy to chat if you want to reach out to the email in my profile. I have some ideas I would build if I had more time, but happy to give them out to someone else starting out.

Since TinySeed was mentioned, felt like adding that its creator has a new book out called The SaaS Playbook: https://saasplaybook.com/

I’m one of the co-founders of TinySeed (and a YC alumn). Happy to answer questions - we’re opening applications Sept 4th

My question: why was my application denied (twice)? I'd love to get more detailed feedback.

We get a lot of applications so it’s impossible to give detailed feedback to every rejection unfortunately. The main reason we reject are: 1. not B2B SaaS 2. No revenue 3. Churn 4. Atrocious cap table.

Tried reaching out through the email in your profile but the email is failing to deliver.

How did you end up finding an idea that was viable? I have researched ideas and then ended up just scrapping it because it didn't seem viable.

it’s about the freedom

If you want freedom, you don't need a business. Just a good enough day job. Then you can do anything you want to do when you're not working the day job.

It would still be worth it even if it resulted in a 10x paycut for me.

This seems like a sketch of what a good enough day job might be.

I can’t shake off the feeling that I’m wasting my time in corporate America.

Do you think building another corporation is the best way for you to shake that feeling? I'm not saying it isn't or it is because it's your feeling and I am not you. Good luck.

> If you want freedom, you don't need a business. Just a good enough day job. Then you can do anything you want to do when you're not working the day job.

I wish it was like that. My ideal “job” would have:

- No or minimal interaction with coworkers, I really want my days to be mostly solo work. I don’t care much if it’s toil work or if it has a massive amount of responsibilities attached, but I need to be solo. No team meetings, no random people (who are not paying me) demanding my time on chat, no physical or timezone-bound presence required.

- Absolutely no management or supervision. No 1:1s and all that crap.

- Ability to leverage the results of my work: if I do a piece of work that unlocks 10 customer deals, I want to be rewarded with a portion of the revenues from those customers. I don’t want to be paid a salary and be rewarded with even more work. It’s embarrassing.

Sounds unreasonable? A solo business would check all the boxes. All the people in my network who went the business owner route had mostly similar reasons. It’s really about owning your time, your work and its full leverage potential. These things are fundamentally at odds with any subordinate employment contract.

> This seems like a sketch of what a good enough day job might be.

I feel I could afford it at my current financial state, for a happier life.

> Do you think building another corporation is the best way for you to shake that feeling?

Yes, absolutely. I would be building a corporation where every single win I manage to get is a leverage for my own future. It’s a completely different dynamic than being a corporate cog.

So in your ideal job you have no coworkers and no management/supervision, and no team meetings. What exactly would you be building where your independent/solo piece of work unlocks 10 customer deals if you have zero interactions with anyone at the company?

* Who is defining what needs to be done?

* Are you talking directly to customers to learn what they want, negotiate features and schedules, iteratively build it, get feedback and release?

* Are you working on their billing issues, help requests and bug fixes independently as well?

* What about marketing, status pages, monitoring systems, etc?

Exactly, this just proves that there is no job that meets my definition of "freedom". My list was a direct response to: "If you want freedom, you don't need a business. Just a good enough day job.". That statement is flawed for my definition of "freedom".

Freedom, in my opinion, is what another commenter in this thread wrote:

> I consider it one of the greatest blessings in my life. Dealing only with customers and code means no bullshit, only the pure joy of actual work, plus the freedom and independence...

You have FU money saved, or rather, enough where you could live in a mid-sized US city in perpetuity off the interest on $4.5m - assume 5% per year on that and its $225k without touching the base.

You could literally quit and just start throwing spaghetti at the wall until you see what sticks (try 1 idea per month or two). You already have freedom sitting there.

I suspect as a general rule, avoiding personal interactions with others probably correlates negatively with successfully running a business.

With the clarification that owning a business is not the same as running a business.

The thing is, like Yoda says: "Do. Or do not. There is no try." As in stop trying to come up with an idea, decide on an idea and move forward. Fail fast, rinse and repeat.

As someone who also had this dream, and recently sold my first small company and now have a solo SaaS I’ve grown to $4k MRR, I can kinda answer this.

The hardest part is the idea. But rather than sitting and thinking about it, I found the best way is to start a consulting business (PG talks about this in his essays)

We started with a recruiting business, which not only taught me sales and general business skills, but more importantly let me discover a problem I could solve in software (www.Dopplio.com if interested)

If I had to come up with more ideas, I would just run more “traditional” businesses like dropshipping or digital marketing and see what problems I encounter.

What a great idea Dopplio is!

Without giving away any secret sauce, would you be able to generally speak about your ML stack to create the content? Very broad stuff, like what frameworks you used, if you rely on readily available models, etc.

Thanks!

I would love to connect with you. Anywhere i can reach out?

Been striving for the IndieHacker dream for years ;)

Easy to keep your motivation just by going and reading the forums and seeing the projects :: https://indiehackers.com

Can't say I've been able to quit my day job or even made enough to brag about but its put me on a path of creativity and ambition. In the process, I've learned so much and done so much including built my own web host, a series of different products, both paid and free, and spoken to so many people from all over the world.

While I still owe a mortgage or two... and I took too much time focusing on "adding the next feature" rather than just an MVP, I probably wouldn't change how I went about any of it.

I miss video games like crazy... but I keep saying to myself: "Goal is to be comfortable and able to retire by 45." If I can reach this goal, I also have some reward in mind for allowing myself to start gaming again.

I am still working my day job which is remote and afford me the time to work on side projects throughout the week and have no dreams of ever quitting, but figure out the niches that you are good at. My dream is certainly in automation, a one-man business with maybe a virtual assistant or two to answer support calls if any of my products were to be that in demand and grow to those heights.

So I learned that if you work on something you have no interest in and you don't use yourself, you're not going to go far. You need to solve your own problem first. And you have to find the niche market of people who either have the same problem or didn't even realize it was a problem until you pointed it out and you just made their lives so much easier.

But just like the lottery, unless you start playing, you won't accomplish anything. Good luck. Keep the innovation and dream alive!

This hits a chord with me and I've felt the same way for years. I'm now unemployed (by choice) and mulling over if I should take the plunge to pursue a SaaS or find another job.

One resource I haven't seen mentioned yet is https://tinyempires.substack.com/. He emphasizes not going the VC route and keeping the business small (solo) instead.

I feel like there should be a support group somewhere for like-minded software engineers that are unhappy with the typical job and yearning for a more self-fulfilling path.

Good luck on whatever you end up doing!

Edit: I forgot to mention there's also a bunch of good videos on YouTube from ycombinator startup school. They go into a lot of detail about cultivating ideas, etc.

Why are you doing anything like working at all? If it’s freedom you want, take it.

Cash out $90,000 a year for the next 5 years from your index funds and do whatever you want. If you’ve got no debt and are healthy you can live a pretty great life with that.

Or is “not working” something you don’t believe you’re not physically capable of doing? Whether through health, old age, or some other reason, we all stop working eventually. Better be ready to deal with it when it happens to you.

What have you tried? It sounds like maybe you’ve tried nothing and are all out of ideas…

If you don’t want to take some of your cash to risk, you will have to try things and fail until you have PMF.

Also however you are going to need to be willing to take risks. If you have $4.5M in index funds, you can certainly use some of that to bootstrap yourself. The fact you don’t want to, but instead want to spend your time (which is much more limited and you cannot make back, unlike money) might indicate you don’t have the right mindset (yet).

I haven’t tried anything unfortunately.

I understand that the money piece might seem irrational, but yeah, I will never spend more than a few thousands of my own money (borrowed or not) on a risky venture. My portfolio is my lifeline, it makes me financially independent from corporate servitude, so I am going to treat it with the uttermost respect, which for me it means diversified index funds, and never run into the risk of squandering it.

I do not see spending my time building tech as time that I cannot make back, because it would be a perfectly fulfilling use of my time.

Thanks.

Hopefully this comes across as tough love, rather than meanness... but you're just going to have to take some risks. If you can't, you won't succeed. And if you think building a business will mostly be fulfilling because it's developing tech, you need to realize you are suffering from the Coffee Shop Fallacy. It's going to be even more of a grind than your current position - just different, answering angry customer support, finding ways people try to scam you, dealing with ad accounts and SEO and taxes and payroll.

If you are unable or unwilling to make a mindset shift, stick with your day job because you are just seeing the greener side of the pasture.

Now, if you can see the opportunity and want to take the risk - then go for it. But you can't be as risk-afraid as you sound in these messages.

If your total comp is 600k and spending a few thousand gives you cold sweat maybe your barriers are just psychological. Don’t be so afraid to take risks that you forget to live at all.

- I am not afraid of taking risks

I think you might want to really reflect on this. From what I've gathered from your other responses, are not willing to take a risk - be it a risk in starting to execute an idea and risk failing or a financial risk.

Slightly off-topic, but do you consider yourself a perfectionist?

> are not willing to take a risk - be it a risk in starting to execute an idea and risk failing

I am totally willing to take that specific risk, I just need an idea to start tinkering with, that was the topic of the thread.

> or a financial risk.

That's not a risk in my book, spending your own money that you allocated for retirement and financial independence towards something else is a fool's errand.

A couple of examples of random career-related risks I took in life:

- Immigrated by myself to the US in my early 20s, with no money or family to support me, despite having a promised stable government job in my home country (with pension, etc). A lot of people in my home country told me they would have never taken that risk. Still to this day, more than a decade later, they tell me they envy the courage of that rural boy who took of for the USA.

- Left highly paid 6-figure jobs, multiple times, to join early stages startups (seed-level early), making peanuts every time. Virtually all my coworkers at the time said how crazy and risky the moves were.

> but do you consider yourself a perfectionist?

Not at all. One of my strengths is actually that I tend to be very "lazy", meaning I do the minimum amount of work to ship something that satisfies the business requirement. You won't find me going above and beyond too many times. I have no problem leaving around a lot of tech debt if it's for a good reason.

Following up because I want to help - if you don't want to invest in a business, but want to develop one, why not just pick an idea from a top 100 list? https://www.intelegain.com/app-ideas-for-startups-to-launch-...

Alternatively, find a product in market that is pretty expensive and offer a budget version of it. NewRelic -> DataDog for server monitoring is one example.

It sounds like you have some skills and feel willing to take a risk with your time. You don't want to risk any capital. Just jump in to one idea and run with it - you'll never know if an idea has legs if you don't try it.

That said, your unwillingness to put even 1% of your net worth into a project that you control does send a clear signal to other people that you don't believe in yourself. That may be inaccurate - it sounds like you believe that it is - but you don't get to dictate how something comes across to other people. Not putting your own money into a venture will give others pause, if you ever look for co-investors or cofounders (or even customers, if they should learn of it).

Why would customers care? Near put a penny of my own money into the business would prevent you from being a customer?

If you are in it for the result and not the process itself, you will have a hard time. People who are passionate about whatever problem is being solved will eat your lunch, or you will give up long before you have something worth selling.

Everyone wants a lifestyle business. Everyone desperately wants money. Why do you deserve it more?

> Everyone wants a lifestyle business. Everyone desperately wants money. Why do you deserve it more?

I don't think I deserve it more. I am totally fine if it doesn't lead anywhere, that's why I am considering it now more than ever given that I finally have enough savings to be effectively financially independent.

I just want a methodology to find a good idea/problem that I could be attempting to solve.

Have you ever built something at $DAYJOB where you thought, "how is there not a service that provides this?" or "why do I need to build this in-house?" or "this vendor's sales process sucks -- this could be self-serve."

Marinate on those projects a bit.

I have a well-formed idea for a SaaS with no upfront capital costs, but needs ramen money for say, ~two devs for 6-12 months or so.

If interested, reply here and I’ll email you.

Is the solo part non-negotiable or would you consider working as a duo? I started multiple businesses alone for the past 10 years with a few successes and even more failures. While I wouldn't want to grow too large as a team, it can be quite depressing at times and that one time I worked with someone else has been immensely rewarding (and the business was a success!). If you were both aligned on your goals, your partner could hold you accountable right now and propose ideas to work on.

> How do I get an idea to start?

I usually check marketplaces where businesses are sold. Not to acquire one, but to get an idea of what makes money. Then start assessing each business from your point of view: Is it easy to build a similar product? Do you have ideas for a improvement? Do you have a strategic advantage through your network or knowledge?

For sure check out MicroConf.com/YouTube and the podcast Startups for the Rest of Us. I’m the host of both, a former developer turned entrepreneur, and both of those are designed for someone in your exact position.

From there you’ll hear about related books, events, groups etc that will benefit you on your journey.

Good luck!

Hi Rob,

Big fan of you! We've reached 2 mill ARR and a team of 10 with our bootstrapped SaaS. I think your book is amazing, but it's likely more for earlier stages.

Any resources you can recommend to scale further?

Why don’t you buy a business with ~100-150k ARR for a 2-3x multiple and grow it. That would save you the first (and hardest) part of finding at least some sort of product-market fit. There are places where people talk about their businesses like indiehackers, also HN has a regular thread.

Thanks for the suggestion. I am extremely protective of my money, so divesting from my index funds to fund the acquisition, or going into debt for acquiring it, is not an option for me. I am really hoping to have something that I can nurture from scratch.

What are the options of financing businesses like this? As a 40 year old salary man, what might I reasonably expect a bank to give me, say if I put down 40k for a 150k business. And assuming I do it under an LLC.

Is that realistic? I know nothing about this world - but I'm assuming some financing exists. Would love to hear takes from people with experience, or any forums that cater to this area of buying SMEs.

I'm in Europe myself.

Not realistic unless you’re talking HELOC to fund the purchase, which I wouldn’t recommend.

I succeeded even harder than your friend and it was a great life for 20 years. Reach me through my profile to if you would like a (free) sounding board from an officially retired 2 hour work week guy.

Old timers like you that should be going to podcasts and telling your story, not 20 years olds with get-rich-quick schemes...

This

So if all things looks so fine, why you bother? - Just run it!

I'm really serious. Business is very special thing, that you could taste it only yourself. Nothing could show you real taste of your own business. Not books. Not videos. Not talks.

Sure, better if you will find mentor, who you trust, and who will help you setup all things right on first year, and will help you if got in trouble on first crisis.

Also good to find community of people with similar look, but community is also special thing, I cannot guarantee they will do all things right.

Only thing I highly recommend, very hardly limit your possibilities to make risky moves.

For example, I seen suggestion, make with your family fund, and write in statute, that you could spend money from fund only if all members of family vote "yes".

So, play this only with small amount of money, not touch your savings.

I haven’t done this but have read about idea generation and validation processes like this:

1. Start with problems, small or big. Write them down. Do it for a few weeks or months.

2. Go through the list and come up with solutions to each problem or discard it.

3. Choose your top 5-10 problems and solutions.

4. Now for validation, create a form that collects email addresses for each problem. Write some marketing stuff there too.

5. Define your target audience for each idea and create ads. Link to your forms.

6. After a few weeks or months, see which idea generated most interest. That is probably what you should work on.

A solo business is really idea oriented. Success or failure is closely linked to the value of the idea and your ability to market it.

Most software developers lack marketing skills and tend to underestimate the value of it. Even with a good product or service, it's pretty rare that customers will come looking for you.

It is for this reason that I formed an informal partnership --- I develop the product and my partner provides marketing and support. This has worked pretty well for the last 25 years.

There’s always this point that engineers aren’t good at marketing but every now and then someone post an unsuccessful SaaS here and it’s always the idea that is garbage.

Start with the playbook: https://playbook.samaltman.com/

HN0 will discourage you but eh, running my own business is the most fun (and work) I've ever had in my life. Some people have to do that Eurotrip. Some have to get into Harvard. Some want kids. And some just need to start a business.

I have no credentials but I'm going to suggest something anyway.

Clone something you already have proof is profitable. Simply find an existing business you KNOW has good economics and that you know you can execute by yourself possibly better than the original… and just clone it.

You eliminate the need for ideas and a lot of risk. You simply have to execute better than existing competitors (not always hard).

Yes but the competitor has a head start in branding, reputation and SEO that you must overcome, not to speak of having experienced a lot of the problems you're about to think your way through.

If you are not afraid of working hard you should be keeping your day job and work on your idea in your spare time until it takes off.

The problem is not how to find the time to hack on it, my question was specifically how to come up with an idea since I do not have any particular exposure to any niche field.

I do the following exercise, each time after YC demo day, I review startups and evaluate their ideas. This helps to come up with new ideas. Another thing, I try to solve my own problems, this is a good source of ideas.

Ouch, here was I thinking that you already had identified some market niche / emerging market, or some piece of technology / engineering / software that doesn't exist yet but you'd like to see become reality. A vision, if you will.

What idea to pursue really is the smallest problem. If you haven't passed that hurdle, don't even think about going all-in. Going all-in, doing what?

Ideas are cheap. It's implementation that matters. And marketing that.

So: come up with idea / market niche / potential product first. Then decide whether to pursue that, and/or start business while doing so.

> I do not have any niche skills, I’m your typical run-of-the-mill backend developer with no particular expertise.

That's not true. You're underestimating yourself.

Every person has unique experience, skill set & personality. As someone said: "every person you talk to, knows something that you don't". But the reverse is also true: you know some things (or have a specific combination of skills, or an idea / vision) that nobody else does. Even if ever-so-slightly different from one of your peers. Or may be in a unique position to take an idea & make it go places.

"Do only, what only you can do".

I think that was Edsger G. Dijkstra quote? You seem at least to have the means to do so.

P.S. Maybe you just need a change of scenery, to come up with fresh ideas? (vacation, hop jobs, move house, dive into unexplored online communities, start a new hobby, ..)

> So: come up with idea

My thread is exactly about how to do this first step :-)

> Maybe you just need a change of scenery, to come up with fresh ideas? (vacation, hop jobs, move house, dive into unexplored online communities, start a new hobby, ..)

I have done all those things over the years, and I never had an idea come out of it. Perhaps there is something wrong with me, where I am just good at being a corporate cog.

I will suggest you take a look at these books. The step 0 of Bill Aulet’s books are all about “how to come up with an idea”.

* Bill Aulet, Disciplined entrepreneurship, 24 steps to a successful startup

* Bill Aulet, Disciplined Entrepreneurship Workbook

I'll say that the key thing to focus on, beyond solving a problem people will pay for, is distribution. The more concretely you can identify who the customer is, how you will get in front of them, why they will buy something now instead of waiting, how it fits into their budget, etc., the more likely it is to work.

Heya, so Ive worked at FAANG+M and I have the opposite problem of too many ideas. Overwhelmed of triaging and experiencing analysis paralysis. Could use a sounding board with someone technically competent. Previous life: prog mgr & full stack. Ping me if you're in the Valley. We talk?

Just retire and work on whatever you find interesting.

Ideas on demand (check Amazon)

Check Indie Hackers idea generation posts

The book?

The first is a book, the second just their website, but they have several posts on idea generation IIRC