Hacker News Reader

Around the 6 months mark is when the baby starts reacting to you. Smiling, copying you, trying to eat food. To me it was a big motivator because in the previous months it's hard to see any meaning in all the effort that I pour out, because the baby was completely useless.

From then on it's less and less useless over time, and they do things like playing and learning to walk. Many of these things don't make it easier for me. Some may even make it harder, but just a little bit. Not having to wake up every few hours is the big release though. So over time, it's less work and more satisfaction, which to me is an ongoing motivator.

Another big jump for me was when we start going to a child care, at around the 12 months mark. It's a huge relief. My wife and I have time to try and resume "normal" life. The baby learns more things at school and sees more people. It costs quite a bit but we don't talk about it :)

I'm hopeful it will be less and less work, but I have already made peace with the fact that I will never be back to "normal". We will probably stress about the baby until we die. The good thing is, the sense of progress and satisfaction seems to scale very well, while the work is mostly flat. Surprisingly my wife and I are already talking about the next baby, because the work would still be mostly flat and the sense of progress / satisfaction would be doubled.

My daughter is 2 now so I'm a little "ahead" of you. Hope this little bit of personal experience helps. Using an old throwaway for privacy reasons.

My son is just about to turn 3 and my daughter is mearly 1. Please be aware that the second child isn't the same amount of work. It more than double - quadruple? It's as hard to explain how much harder a second child is as it is to explain how tough the first would be to someone with none.

People tell you that having a kid will take all your free time but it's not really true because one parent can relax while the other foes something with one. When you have a second, the wife be fully occupied with the second and you will become primary care for the first. You're both suddenly single parents. The internal fortitude required to single handedly entertain a toddler exceeds anything I've ever had to do before.

Thanks for this. It makes a lot of sense. I will tell my wife and we'll scratch our heads discussing it. But I already have a vague feeling we may end up with the famous last words "how hard can it be" :)

What's your opinion on these "mitigations" just off the top of my head? I won't argue. Just finding food for thought.

- I'm already writing off the first 6 or 12 months after the birth of the second kid. It will be hell. No question about that. But when (if?) we are able to send the second kid to child care we should have a chunk of day time that is "free". Not to discount your experience but I imagine you have just gone through the hardest part.

- It should be easier when the first kid is older? I know it's not realistic to expect the first kid to actually help but at least they aren't trying to kill themselves all the time. I'm hoping to find some activities that would allow me to spend maybe 70% attention to the second kid and 30% to the first, and have them both be not too pissed off.

- Other economy of scale things? Get both kids to go to the same child care. Going to the park together. Eat together etc

Hi, parent of 4 here. Yep, the change from 1->2 is as hard as from 0->1. After 2+ it's log2n, not even linearly harder. The chores & experience you already have, you don't have less time ( because you don't have any anyway) and you just ruthlessly priorize between tasks. With two child you need to have a way to create free time to yourself. It's doable but it requires conscious effort, it's not the default mode anymore.

They will play with each other a lot and that gives free time back. With one child you are the only one she can count on in the early years. Sibling in my view are essential to build emotional intelligence, the skill to be able to lose and try again, cooperate and fight, and able to find a compromise.

Around 5 or 6year+ they start to actually help.

After the first child I missed my childless life. After the 4th I really don't, it really helped me grow many ways I did not thought was possible.

The first 6 months are incredibly difficult, as there's nothing to do but cry and feed. It will never be perfect, but it gets better.

> It gets better

One perspective that helped me was "little people, little problems". In few years they might be drinking your booze and stealing your car.

Mine are five and eight now. There's still rarely 15 minutes. Somebody's hungry, somebody's hitting somebody, somebody's having another meltdown.

On occasion though, they get interested in whatever I'm doing though, so that's nice.

> but it gets better

Parents say this, but looking at their lives and talking to them, it doesn't. I think you just get used to it, or develop a sort of stockholm syndrome.

Maybe you sleep a little better so it's easier to mentally cope with it

It is mostly better sleep, one of the better coping mechanisms available to humans.

It is also the transition going from sheer terror of creating life, to accepting that there is no perfect parenting.

Nonsense. As a parent of an 8 & 10 year old, I'll emphatically disagree with you here. It 100% gets better - every year, they're more fun and more independent. Talk to any parent who's kid has just left for college and the vast vast majority of them actually feel overwhelmingly sad when it happens.

No, it does get better. The first year is just constant lack of sleep and disruption. As they get older they get more entertaining and need less constant attention.

Parent of 3 (soon to be 4) year old here ...

Thanks for sharing. First off, I think it's normal to experience the feelings of regret when first having a child. Those first few months (maybe even years) can actually feel worse: less (sometimes no) sleep, less freedom (for other activities), less intimacy.

The list goes on and on.

But, as you recognized, focusing on the negatives can be self reinforcing.

At the same time, being a parent (for me) fills me up in ways I've never experienced before. A joy ... love ... that got lost in childhood.

And raising a child is not (again, for me) something I can/want to pull off on my own, with only my wife and I. It really does take a whole village and I'm no longer sold on the nuclear (American) family — just mom and dad – raising children.

Anyways, sending you lots of vibes from one parent to another.

We moved to be closer to family - don't know how people do it without help. Those people must be mad

> I'm no longer sold on the nuclear (American) family — just mom and dad – raising children.

It's not tenable with the complexities and expenses of modern life. It may have been tenable in the 1950s-70s when US prosperity for the middle class was maybe at a global all time high

Parent of 4, here. I think you just need to change your POV: when you think of it, it doesn't make any sense to choose to have kids...less free time, less sleep, more expenses, more commitments and the list goes on. But then think of how many things we choose to do which don't make sense, but we still do because we want to.

Having kids will give you a whole new perspective about life, IMHO, about love (mostly, there's no other way you can feel that kind of love), about learning to say NO just because you start valuing your time more, maybe even taking more care of your health, because you want to be there, you want to be in good shape and having the energy they need.

When feeling negative sentiments/resentment popping up, think this: it wasn't their's decision to be born, it was yours, so they are not guilty of X. Having kids is an egoist decision we make as parents, but then a lot of parents blame their kids for this or that. Not their fault, not anyone's fault really. It is what it is, as with most things in life.

Just take care of your sleep, of the relationship with your partner (this is huge! otherwise the family will crumble as will your relationship) and enjoy the ride with an open mind. Savour the little things, for as much as it is trite rhetoric, they will soon be gone, replaced by different ones, but you'll have only one first smile, one first word, one first step, etc, for each kid, and those you want to cherish. It's a choice we have to make with everything in our lives: complain about everything going wrong/missing, or simply living and enjoying what you have in the moment.

It will be a lot of work, but more fun than you could ever imagine. Good luck!

Dude being a parent is the HARDEST thing anyone will ever do.

People that don't agree are either wealthy or full of shit with horrible children IME.

To anyone reading this: It is A-OK to feel what you feel (regret, guilt, fear, etc) its what you do with those feelings that matter.

The first year of parenthood is absolutely miserable with the lack of sleep and quick milestones changing (for the better, usually) the routines.

It. Gets. Better.

But its work and you gotta take care of you. Cant pour from an empty cup, etc etc.

Build a support network and use it.

Is it because life's difficulties are generally amplified with kids? I've never truly regretted having kids, but I had my first one when I was barely making more than minimum wage and somewhat in debt. Hell we didn't even have health insurance, so we couldn't go to the hospital and had to opt for an at-home birth. All of the stress that life was pushing on me was magnified 100x when that baby came. At the end of the day I would I sleep snuggling next to my child though and all the pain would kind of wash away. That alone made parenting worth it somehow.

Honestly my kids are the only thing that keep me alive. I have a persistent deep hatred for the world - almost always have - and I've contemplated suicide many times in my life, but my children keep me going. I will be here as long as they are. There is nothing more soothing than seeing them smile. The rare times that I get a chance to just sit still, I find myself observing all the small things they do and appreciating their innocence in it. Almost everything we interact with in the modern world is fake, but the one thing that is truly genuine is the love between parent and child; especially in their youth.

> when I was younger I always said I don't regret anything I do

A better angle is: Don't act in such a way that you'll regret it.

That advice doesn't tackle dealing with things you regret.

But neither does "I regret nothing!" -- it is not instructive as to what is good, or how to process events, it just gives a free pass to any behavior. Only young people and Edith Piaf say this.

> it just gives a free pass to any behavior.

Totally disagree. I am not free from the consequences of my actions. I'm simply saying it's a waste of mental energy to drag yourself down based on events that happened in the past. You can learn from things you've done and if something was a mistake in hindsight, you can avoid those mistakes in the future.

But I try not regret making any mistakes I've made because there's no point. You can't objectively judge your decisions if they're clouded in an emotional haze

> it's a waste of mental energy to drag yourself down based on events that happened in the past

I completely agree.

But I'm trying to make the distinction between "don't obtain debt" and "don't pay debt".

> if something was a mistake in hindsight, you can avoid those mistakes in the future

There's a word for the process of concluding that something was a mistake: regret.

I think the difference in understanding comes from what we put into the word.

Regret is a word loaded with emotion.

If the purpose is to say "don't beat yourself up endlessly", I 100% agree.

But beat yourself up a little and let go. :-)

Preventing mistakes requires regretting them.

Make sure you video record yourself playing peek-a-boo... I have a recording, and all this time later, it still makes me irrationally happy every time I watch it.

I also noticed, because I took a ton of photos, that Sproutlet had at least 5 different faces while growing up... it's fascinating.

But...yeah, it's tough in the beginning.