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Comment by d--b | Hacker News Reader

Hey there. It’s 4am, just woke up. I have been insomniac for a while now. But I have this kind if insomnia where I have no trouble at all falling asleep in the evening. I just wake up early. Way too early. And then I can’t go back to sleep. I don’t think I am anxious at all. I just stay there in my bed not doing much not thinking much. Usually I can do stuff, and then go back to sleep around 8am for a couple hours, which isn’t really compatible with having young kids and a job.

Can your app help me? Or is it made to help some other kind of insomnia?

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I have the same issue after an acute long term sleep deprivation (slept 9 hours in 3 days with nearly no REM) 8 months ago. It turns out it damaged my thalamus (which is responsible for the wake-sleep alternance). Nothing can be done (at least currently) which is quite depressing, so I cope by taking long acting benzos which allow me to sleep 5-6 hours. From my research it also entice decreased ability to create « sleep spindle », if your sleep is also not qualitative and you’re not stressed, this may be an indication this is the same cause and you may want to see a neurologist.

Agreed! Definitely talk to your physician if you're unsure! Not all chronic sleep issues are psychological in nature.

I have the same problem. I can’t speak to this app but I used to be up for at least 2 hours reading on my phone finally falling asleep when I need to get up. What has been working for me the past few months are podcasts. Most times I’m back out in < 1 min. I really like Fall of Civilizations. In a distant second place would be Boring Books for Bedtime or Bedtime with Wikipedia. Really anything that doesn’t have loud noises or ads in the middle that you find soothing.

But yes, not waking up at all at 4am would be great.

While we are on the topic of helpful sleep podcast, here I two I used to use:

Sleep With Me

https://www.youtube.com/@Sleepwithmepodcast

Jason Stephenson's Sleep Meditations

https://www.youtube.com/@jasonstephensonmeditation

I’ve been self medicating with podcasts to solve this exact issue for 5-6 years. I’d advise trying to wean yourself off it before it goes on too long. I now have tinnitus from the earbuds in my ears at night.

You can listen at a reasonable level (70dB) indefinitely, and up to about 80 for an 8-hour period, without any kind of hearing loss.

So the good news is unless you're absolutely blasting it with open buds to help block out background noise, the tinnitus was caused by something else, and there are many causes.

I actually had tinnitus for nearly a decade in my late 20s - mid 30s... thought is was noise induced from multiple concerts without earplugs, but eventually decided to make all sorts of lifestyle changes to reduce stress and improve sleep and it magically went away.

Insomnia is defined as trouble falling asleep, or staying asleep. In your case, it seems like the latter. Our app might be able to help, but it also seems like you might be experiencing bi-phasic sleep which is more common than you imagine. Sleep restriction therapy (which begins in the second week of our program) might be able to help you consolidate your sleep into a narrower window if that's ideal for you. I would also recommend that you talk to your physician, especially if you have existing medical conditions. Hope you find a way to resolve/ manage your sleep issue!

You've ruled out that it's not just (what I've read was normal for some of our ancient ancestors) waking up for an hour in the middle of the night, to tend the campfire or whatever, and then go back to sleep?

No I did not rule that out. Problem is I rarely have campfires that need tending to.

FWIW, for a period that I was inexplicably waking up halfway through the night, just telling myself it was probably "normal", and that I'd probably go back to sleep in an hour... might've relieved some self-fulfilling concern that I wouldn't be able to go back to sleep.

I have this. But every time I go on holiday (like, proper leave the city holiday) it goes away immediately.

I believe it's stress related for me. Meditation and sleep hygiene works, but nothing else so far. YMMV, good luck.

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