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Comment by jona-f | Hacker News Reader

It still is. Or have I missed a site that has similar amount and quality of information?

Sheldon's site was a great resource because it was meticulously organized information written by someone immensely respected for having expert knowledge from decades of being a bike mechanic and massive bike nerd who seemingly spent every waking hour of his life either riding, tinkering with, or repairing bikes.

The site has been "maintained" (heavily edited and appended) by a guy named John Allen who I think mostly just knows a bunch of people in the retrogrouch scene (you know the types - $10k steel randonneur bikes), has never worked as a bike mechanic, seems to have little practical hands-on knowledge, and repeatedly pontificates about stuff he doesn't seem to have experience with. A lot of his additions and modifications seem to be his personal opinions.

I don't know if it's since been revised, but the stuff he wrote about belt drive bikes years ago made it clear he was just parroting shit he'd read elsewhere by people who had never ridden one for an extended period of time or owned one. Despite what he claims, they're virtually unbeatable for all-weather transportation bikes.

I'm a total newb regarding bikes but this Youtube channel seems quite solid from a distance regarding reliable bikes: https://www.youtube.com/@Cyclingabout

Considering he's the kind of person that rides around the world, and that the suggestions seem well presented, internal gear hub + belt drive seems like a solid combo for reliability.

> Internal gear hub + belt drive seems like a solid combo for reliability

It is. But make sure you get a solid internal gear hub because they're not all made the same. Shimano has an indestructible five gear model, the higher the number of gears the less torque the hub can deal with. Rohloff is beautiful but I think it is overpriced for what it offers (that's a personal opinion, others may well disagree). B-brands or anything open or chain based is going to be a lot less reliable.

> Shimano has an indestructible five gear model, the higher the number of gears the less torque the hub can deal with.

He actually recommends Shimano Alfine 8, he finds it has a good balance between robustness and the way it handles.

Yes, that makes sense, the 8 is a nice optimum. But if you engineer for maximum reliability and still need more than 3 gears then that five is as good as it gets. It's the NEXUS SG-C7002-5CD 5-speed model, to be specific. There is also an e-bike one for even more torque applications.

IMO for e-bike you probably should be looking at the enviolo CVTs. Sure they're a little less efficient but you can get 330% gear range with ridiculous durability and have the option for electronic shifting. (that said my bike is a non-ebike shimano alfine 8)

Enviolo sucks. We have one Enviolo bike in the family. We use it as creative punishment. It sucks. Even for an e-bike.

Why does it suck?

they are slow and heavy. Specifically they are roughly 85% efficient compared to ~90% for an internal gearbox or ~95% for a derailer. They also add about 1 pound compared to a gearbox or 2 pounds compared to a 1x derailer system.

Does it matter for ebikes? Especially for commuter bikes.

I'd argue no (that's why I recommended it for ebikes 2 levels up)

That depends: if you are at the edge of your range then the Enviolo may well cause you to have to pedal the hard way with a bike that feels as though you're going uphill all the time. I only see one positive about the Enviolo and that's that you can change to low gear at a traffic light even when you're stopped.

Because it eats up range like there is no tomorrow, makes all kinds of weird sounds, you need to keep it taut on the shifter to get to the highest gear ratio (it will 'unwind' all by itself if you don't do that), and once the batteries run out the bike is so heavy to cycle you may as well give up. And this is as good as it gets, nicely lubricated, regulated as good as possible. It's a very interesting idea but it is either not executed well enough or it is inherently problematic and it won't get better. Buying that bike was a serious mistake, fortunately that wasn't my decision because I'd feel miserable. CVT on a bike is a very nice feature and there are some really interesting developments in that space, but Enviolo isn't it, no matter how much it gets pushed.

I bought a enviolo CVT about 12 years ago because I happened to find one unused a cheap on eBay. It was so heavy once I handled it and the shifter seemed cheap so I didn’t even try to build a wheel with it. I could barely give it away, ended up trading it for a tune-up.

> Rohloff is beautiful but I think it is overpriced for what it offers

Rohloff hubs are made in Germany by a workforce that enjoys good working conditions, and moreover each hold a stake in the company. That’s something to remember any time you compare the price of a Rohloff hub to an Asian-made component.

All of Asia has the same labor practices? What about Japan?

Working hours in Japan are infamously higher than the German standard, and vacation days fewer. At German companies, employees can also be much more direct and straightforward with their superiors. Sure, Shimano’s facilities in Japan are no Chinese or Malaysian sweatshop, but I like that a Rohloff purchase supports a higher quality of life.

German worker standards and unions are super strong.

I'd say the onus is on the commenter to show that other countries do better than Germany, a world leader in worker rights.

You might like these, the even offer Pinions + belt drive bikes!

https://www.prioritybicycles.com/pages/about-us

[disclaimer] Neither affiliated nor do i own one :(

They should start making more low entry bikes (edit: low frame/no high cross bar).

I guess biking is still dominated by guys and by racing. If bike commuting picks up, low entry bikes should outnumber sporty bikes 10:1, I hope.

Edit: they only sell in the US, not in Europe :-(

Edit: those are not commuting bikes :-))) Now, THESE are commuting bikes: https://www.batavus.nl/elektrische-fietsen

The market for Pinion bikes with belt drives is driven largely by bikes in Western Europe bought by families that need to transport children and shopping. A second market is people wanting a high-end bikepacking bike for expedition cycling. Those families and bikepackers are usually willing to spend several thousand euro for such a bike, so there is not yet the strong demand for low-entry bikes.

I meant "low entry" as in "easy to get on the bike". Low frame/no high cross bar.

I didn't mean cheap, but I can see how it can be read that way :-)

IMO the mountain bike frame with a lowered crossbar is a pretty good compromise between stiffness and ease of entry.

Enduro mountain bikes tend to be lower, but they won't be great in the city. They're heavier, less efficient because of the dual suspension and the maxim chain ring size is around 34T (they usually come with only 30T or 32T if you're lucky).

I didn't mean that mountain bikes are good for cities, all I meant was that I feel like there should be more city bikes that draw a relatively straight line between the back wheel and stem (e.g. the trek Marin geometry). it seems like a good cross between a diamond and a step through

I know what you meant, but my point still stands. From what I've seen road bicycles seem to be the tallest, while hardcore mountain bikes tend to the shortest.

For example, looking at medium - large sizes, Trek Marlin 8 Gen 3 [1] has a standover of ~750mm, while Nukeproof Scout [2] has one of just ~710mm.

[1]: https://www.trekbikes.com/us/en_US/bikes/mountain-bikes/cros...

[2]: https://nukeproof.com/products/2022-scout-290

I've got an L-Train from them- the belt drive aspect is great, but it's important to note that the lower pricing comes at a cost: their other components are low-quality, particularly their house-branded hydraulic brakes: They were impossible to get to stop rubbing despite all manner of adjustments- the pistons simply don't retract enough. Ended up just buying some Shimano MT200s. The wheels and tires they ship with are also just barely adequate (the tires clearly came out of a well-used mold).

This mirrors my experience pretty well (although I haven't had any issues with the wheels/tires). The brakes are definitely a little annoying (although with a small amount of messing with the alignment I've gotten mine pretty good). Overall I'm very happy with mine. I'll probably eventually replace the brakes, but it's ~600 cheaper than anything similar I've found from another company (assuming the basically permanent $100 sale).

Yep, the price was definitely right, the cheapest belt-drive bike I could find that wasn't a bikesdirect bike. Aesthetically I gotta say it's a pretty nice-looking bike.

I've been watching his videos for a while when I was looking to build a bikepacking bike a few years back. For me, he's very good at what he does, but what he does is just a bit too extreme for what I want.

I get how internal gears are great and reliable and probably a great choice if You need a bike that will carry 30kg of baggage for 20k+ kilometers and won't break. However, I don't plan on doing either of those things.

I'm fairly happy to do my basic yearly maintenance myself (chain / cassette change), if in return I get a system that will cost me way less and has an upgrade tree that's an order of magnitude larger than that of belt drives.

For me, part of the fun in bike building / maintenance is the fact that Your tastes / needs change. And to a good degree, if You stay in the mainstream components, bikes these days are pretty flexible / adaptable to that. In my case, I'd probably struggle with handlebars (I'm a fan of drops, which would probably limit my choice of shifters) and frame geometry (as I age, I'm starting to develop a pretty well honed taste for what size / fit do I want to have in a bike frame).

Amusingly, his channel is probably interesting to a different audience than just bikepackers.

Hard core no fuss commuters that don't ever want to touch or tinker with bike parts.

The things that make a bike work well for 20k km in harsh conditions in Kazakhstan and India also make a bike work well with a child seat in the city during the summer and winter and out grocery shopping, etc.

sure, that was my idea for a while as well. My problem is that I live in a big city. And bike theft is a real problem.

I would have loved to build me something around a Rohloff gearbox with a belt compatible frame, but that thing would set me back at least 2k EUR / USD. By comparison, my current commuter setup is a combo of two single speed bikes (one light, one with racks for more cargo / shopping capacity), either of which I got used for 50 and 100Eur respectively. And my current bikepacking bike is a 1200EUR steel Kona with some extra components slapped on top. Basically, I've got 3 bikes for 3 diferent uses for a price of that gearbox one.

Yeah, that makes sense. Bike theft really needs to be addressed for bike usage to spike. We need proper, secure, bike parking everywhere. Companies should be incentivized to offer it as a benefit, same thing for malls and other venues.

> $10k steel randonneur bikes

Where is this a thing? I’m fairly familiar with retro-grouch bike brands, and their products cost less than half of that. Today when carbon frames, Rohloff hubs, or Pinion gearboxes are all the rage, and those are very expensive parts that push up the cost of a bike by thousands, retro-grouch steel bikes often seem cheap in comparison. One exception is when the frame is custom-made in a Western country instead of outsourced to Taiwan like most brands, but that still shouldn’t reach $10K.

I think outside of niche applications like extreme weather, fleet delivery or public share e-bikes, internal gear hubs and belts aren’t worth it. The efficiency is noticeable if you switch bikes or ride beside someone with a “normal” bike.

Especially not worth it now that midrange bikes come with disc brakes and 1x10 or 1x12 derailleur drivetrains (no front derailleur) that are reliable, efficient, light and inexpensive. Without a front derailleur adjustment is a cinch and any difficulty or mental load for a casual rider to change gears goes away. Things going slightly out of adjustment and then over time some gear combinations causing your chain to skip or fall off is almost a thing of the past.

And only the drivetrain is lower maintenance. Brakes are the same (unless you also decide you don’t really need effective brakes and go with roller/drum brakes over disc brakes). Maintenance of tires/punctures is much more time consuming.

it depends what you mean by extreme weather. I use my bike for a daily commute in Boston and I love having a gearbox because even though the winter doesn't get that cold (only a few days below freezing this year), rain and salt and snow and dirt will absolutely get into your chain with a chain bike. The CVTs have a really noticable efficiency loss, but the geared ones (alfine or rohloff) are pretty close to a derailer efficiency. Also for city biking, the ability to shift without pedaling is really nice.

It definitely depends on your definition of extreme weather. I've been more of a "take the train unless the weather is nice" or "cycle unless the weather is bad" person at various stages/places. So I admit I am biased. In my defense I have been shopping for commuter bikes recently and I don't see any compelling options (actually no options from most brands) compared to 1x10 and 1x12 bikes this year. I've also seen noticeable efficiency loss in my old Nexus 7speed bike compared to others and never considered getting another IGH bike after that one.

Changing gears using a front derailleur is a pain in the ass, but cleaning and lubricating the chain (+casette +chain rings) after every ride in the rain, is not?! When it's not raining, there's also the issue of dust.

You don't need super duper brakes for casual riding, hydraulic disk brakes are good enough without much maintenance, maybe just once per year.

Unless the tires are skinny, they shouldn't puncture very often and replacing them isn't that hard or expensive.

You won't break any speed records with a belt and an internal gearhub, but they aren't that inefficient especially when you don't waste time or money cleaning the traditional drivetrain.

I guess it depends on your climate and habits. If you ride in the rain a lot, belt drive is a nice feature.

But overall I think the benefits are not worth the extra cost/lack of choice in models, and other demerits.

It still is. It just hasn’t kept up with the new technology of the bike industry and those vintage parts featured on Sheldon’s site are becoming harder and harder to find and when they are found are just as expensive, if not more expensive, than modern componentry.

For those who are unaware, Sheldon Brown died in 2008.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sheldon_Brown_(bicycle_mechani...

The site is still being updated:

> Reports of the demise of this Web site are greatly exaggerated! We at sheldonbrown.com thank Harris Cyclery for its support over the years. Harris Cyclery has closed, but we keep going. Keep visiting the site for new and updated articles, and news about possible new affilations.

Also:

https://sheldonbrown.com/blog/

It's still the main resource for fixed gear cyclists since that stuff hasn't changed at all really. Fixed is a small but very active bike niche and because of the mechanical simplicity most people handle their own maintenance work.

I would bet that most active fixed riders have recent practical exposure to SB because of it, I hear him mentioned regularly IRL. I know a 22-year-old with his face tattooed on his calf lol.

Where are you from? I’m jealous of your cycling community.

> his face tattooed on his calf

Best cycling tattoo I’ve ever heard of

I'm not from here but this is south side chicago. Very active fixed gear scene, though also very young. Fun to ride with and they have cool bikes, totally different aesthetics from what fixed meant in earlier eras. Lot of modern geo track bikes with wide riser bars for the street. I've given them a spin tho and it is honestly very fun the kids know what's up.

I go to https://www.reddit.com/r/bikewrench for bike maintenance Q&A. The responders there are often extremely knowledgeable, although it doesn't have the article structure of Sheldon's site.

I frequent that subreddit as well, but one needs to be very careful to navigate the cargo-cult very very wrong "solutions". Some of these sound right on their face, and thus get parroted, but don't really work out.

Any examples come to mind? This is true of most Internet communities but I've actually found that one to have more informed opinions than usual.

Overall I agree, and usually the right answer will filter to the top, but not always. Here's some of the main groupthink pet peeve ones off the top of my head:

- Gorilla Tape for tubeless. Reality is that it's porous and absorbent and the adhesive is hard to remove, and can pull the cosmetic layer off carbon rims. It works, but with all sorts of bad side effects. Standard tubeless (polypropylene strapping) tape applied properly rim wall to rim wall works far better.

- A screwdriver is just fine for removing a crown race from a fork. (This almost always mars the fork, and while on a cartridge bearing fork this is mostly cosmetic, it can do damage and is bad looking. Shows lack of attention to detail.)

- Contaminated disc brake pads can be cleaned to like-new by applying heat. I've never once seen nor heard of this actually working long-term. It's always a "well, it might work" that turns up negative. And the outgassing of burning off break fluid isn't good to be around.

Then the litany of "how's this dent in my frame?" with the inevitable and loud "it's metal it can dent and be fine".

When I began building bikes 10 years ago, Sheldon's site was already like an old book in the library.

It was a reference for older topics, such as recently when I needed to understand the internal workings of a Sturmey Archer hub to fix one.

However, it hasn't been of much help for the new developments from the past 15 years since his passing.

While less organized and sometimes messy, YouTube and many other sites can answer any bike mechanic question. Even ChatGPT generally provides good answers

yeah, same here. I do have one cheap French threaded BB bike and another 20+y old road bike with Shimano 600, so I'm a regular visitor of Sheldon's. But for anything 10y old and less, it's straight to Park Tool's Youtube channel to admire Calvin Jones' moustache wax. However, even Park Tool doesn't have the sheer volume of reference data and simple tables of measurements that Sheldon has gathered over the years.

The people who run the site now are adding new material to it. I built a new bike this year and actually found a lot of useful info for modern components on the site. Maybe our bike types don't overlap much, but I've personally found it useful still.

It’s still my goto, but there’s a ton a new bike tech that’s come about since, e-shifters, disc brakes, bottom bracket standards. Things keep changing…

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