Not saying I couldn't make due with a smaller car but it would definitely make things more complicated.
But they're dying because people ain't buying, because the costs are so high and those with the money to buy new vehicles don't like them.
There is NOTHING preventing small SUVs that hold 5 people and cargo, get really good mileage, and are cheap(ish) - but they don't exist used because they don't exist new.
(It's sad, because I'm buying a new minivan, and I could not make the PHEV Pacifica make sense no matter how I finagled the financial numbers, the Sienna is simply unavailable at reasonable trim levels, and nobody makes an EV minivan.)
The Toyota Highlander is just a minivan with SUV doors.
Honda's really dated now and needs a strong refresh. Toyota's king of the market and it shows they know, I wish someone would light a fire under them a bit.
Once it's available, that might be very nice.
I was supremely disappointed that the Transit full-size van is NOT available in passenger in the EV version. Might have almost stretched the budget for that.
I have a chevy silverado with a crew cab. I put my 6 family members in it regularly. I get 20-25mpg on the highway because the engine shuts down 4 cylinders when I'm cruising. I have had hondas, toyotas, BMWs and I have to say in my opinion, american full-size trucks are the greatest cars on the road today in terms of trading-off size, efficiency, reliability, range, price (maybe not now) etc. I never thought of myself as a "truck guy" until I got one. Its a hard pill for many to swallow.
They're damn usable vehicles, especially if you consider the entire market from the Maverick up to the super-duty.
Someone should do the math on the environmental aspects of one largish vehicle for a family vs a largish + smaller (e.g, when does the fuel savings of the smaller finally out run the cost of acquiring said smaller).
In my opinion, full size trucks are the absolute worst vehicles on the road in terms of those trade offs. You get pitiful gas mileage, a tiny cab, high prices, and the thing is absolutely massive despite most folks only generally using a tiny portion of it at a time.
IMO the only justifiable reason to drive a pickup is if you tow or carry extremely volumes of stuff on a near daily basis.
> The Carnival matched its EPA combined rating during its stay with us, averaging 22 mpg. https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a38417315/2022-kia-carn...
> No matter which trim you select, the 2023 Honda Odyssey mpg will be 19 city/28 highway/22 combined.
These are not 10-15 extra. Maybe 5-10 extra. The Sienna might pull 15 extra.
I don't need extra room for passengers, I need extra room for other stuff, lumber, pipes, etc. I've had a van before, and I think the tradeoffs are better in terms of the truck. Not all folks that have trucks are soccer moms that use it to drop off the kids like you think.
Like the RAV-4 Hybrid, Ford Escape Hybrid & Plug-in Hybrid, etc., yes.
> but they don't exist used because they don't exist new.
Except they do exist, both new and used.
I was in line for a Sienna for 20 months before I finally bailed.
You could find those RAV4s here: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/12fx6j51iiA7q1Wm3keDu... (or the hybrid or prime) if you were bored.
Often the manufacturers allocate vehicles to dealers on somewhat of a random lottery, so if you need one fast you're often best traveling to the dealer that's as far away from a big city as possible.
How much cargo you want? I think the mid-size sector favorites (CR-V, RAV4, etc.) come pretty close to this, especially if you are willing to use a cargo box.
I'm thinking of something more akin to the old hatchbacks, but that may be getting close.
(Comparing the RAV4 to the Camry really shows the Camry's weaknesses, it's a bigger car with less room).
Besides the "cool factor" it's really the perfect vehicle.
It has nothing to do with this. The US was settled, and most cities were developed before the introduction of the automobile. It's just that after WWII we bulldozed most of the country for highways and decided that cars were the only way to move around.
I invite you to visit N. Montana or either of the Dakotas, or that stretch of highway in Nebraska that seems to go in a straight line for several hundred miles.
The negative effects of vehicle size and dependence on infrastructure and society are intimately tied to where people live.
> Urban areas make up only 3 percent of the entire land area of the country but are home to more than 80 percent of the population.
https://www.census.gov/library/stories/2017/08/rural-america....
Truck rentals,
At-home delivery of building materials and hardware,
Actual trucks with drivers licensed for trucking,
Using a car with fold-down back seatsSeems like these weigh 1.8-2.0 tons
- Few tradespeople are moving large loads of loose material or goods around e.g. debris or lawnmowers. If you do move dirt or lawnmowers around regularly, you're not buying a consumer Ford F150 for the purpose, you're going to buy something like an F250 with what's called a "work body" or "landscape body" (hilariously, strongly implying an off-the-shelf F250 is not equipped for work): https://cmtruckbeds.com/truck-beds/lb-landscape-body/
- A fully enclosed van means less risk of casual stealing, and less concern for tying down every little thing during transport
- Vans are generally a bit narrower than the big trucks so you can squeeze them into the strange city job sites much easier.
- They don't have to worry about protecting their cargo from the elements
- If you get the right van, you can stand up inside that van
- A van is going to have a pretty low floor that you can generally step into and out of. A large pickup you may need to literally climb into. A tradesperson is going to have to do that like 10+ times a day
It always seems like the foreman or project manager is the one you see driving the pickup truck, all the other working stiffs choose vans though.
There are trucks in Greece, just not that many twin cabs, mostly you will see them outside the city in the country.
Construction workers use mostly vans, and flatbed versions of vans (Like the ford transit) also called cab-over pick-up trucks. There are lots of small light cab-over trucks in the islands by Piaggio and Daihatsu https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Truck#/media/File:PiaggioTruck... which are pretty hand and often provide a pretty big flatbed for stuff. There are some construction workers like electricians, plumbers etc that love to use panel vans or their passenger versions using folded seats like the Fiat Doblo (Similar to the Ram Promaster City).
We are actually thinking of buying a mild-hybrid version of the passenger version of a panel-van to cover our family needs.
I couldn't own a basic car, let alone an RV, when I was living in Stockholm. I was trying to figure out if I could buy a large enough trailer for my bicycle to transport my inflatible boat somewhere (and there are basically no public boat launches!), I couldn't dream of RV, it seems those things are only for very wealthy people in Europe.
Now I own a normal 18 foot boat with a trailer and an RV camper even though I work in the same field. My life quality significantly improved since I moved to the U.S and I will never look back.
I chuckle at the weird and ridiculous things people do with their trucks. The lift kits, and the widening, and the heee-yuge tires. I cannot imagine what kind of mileage they make.
SUVs are purely about status and, for many people I've asked, a feeling of greater security at high speed on secondary roads from being higher off the ground. It's pretty problematic that people seek out a vehicle specifically so they can falsely feel more secure driving in a less-safe manner.
Emissions standards changed in a way that benefits larger vehicles, and the size of cars exploded.
You have a practical vehicle for your situation and location. We would all be better off if a lot of urban/suburban SUV purchases were minivan purchases instead - like they were 20 years ago, and like your more recent purchase was.
Any solution that requires people to live like it's the 1500s is probably a nonstarter.
I don't want future generations role-playing Fallout. So I try my best to reduce the emissions. Bike, have less and smaller cars.
Its not the middle ages and you still can have a quality life.
The occasional family road trip shouldn't be a cause for disdain, families with children shouldn't be shunned for wanting to travel and enjoy the various things their region has to offer.