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Comment by mcculley | Hacker News Reader

It baffles me that motorcycles are legal in jurisdictions that require seat belts in cars.

Well this demonstrates the cognitive dissonance of our modern political system. On the one hand we have to accept that motorcycles are both inherently very deadly and accept the legality of their use. Not only that but in most jurisdictions it's legal to ride without a helmet. On the other hand, seat belt fines are perfectly acceptable and only anarchist weirdos would be opposed to them. We also have to be mad at cops for stopping people and questioning them, event though that is the only way to enforce seat belt laws.

I think the US is kind of unique when it comes to motorcycle safety laws (or rather the lack of them) and still 18 states + DC require helmets for all riders. Most states have some age requirements, and only three states have no helmet laws for motorcycles.

Every country in Europe requires a helmet, so does Canada and Mexico.

It’s probably more dangerous for you not to ditch your bike than it is to stay on it when collision is eminent? I can’t confirm this though, but most times I’ve seen an experienced person fall off a bike, they don’t stay on it.

Motorcycles are kinda grandfathered in at this point. If they were invented today they would never be allowed on the road.

I think riding a motorcycle is accepting an enormous amount of risk. I don't see why we should permit that for some and limit it for others.

Why? Safety isn't generally about achieving an absolute probability of death. Does it baffle you that human space flight exists in a country that requires wet floor signs?

The spaceflight/floor example does not baffle me at all. It is my responsibility to put up a wet floor sign to keep from harming others. When I am walking near a wet floor, I expect the owner of the floor to limit risk and liability for me and others walking on the floor.

While I always wear a seat belt and will not even move my car without ensuring that my passengers are wearing their seat belts, I don't feel I should tell other drivers what to do inside their cars.

I live in Florida, where motorcycle riders are not required to wear helmets while those riding in cars are required to wear seat belts. It is silly.

Yeah the helmets thing is very silly. Think about car insurance though.

I can't tell if this is a serious comment or not.

If it is genuine, did you mean motorcycles without helmet enforcement?

I am seriously baffled.

I live in Florida, where motorcyclists are allowed to go unhelmeted while car drivers are required to wear seat belts.

> Donorcycles: Motorcycle Helmet Laws and the Supply of Organ Donors

https://www.jstor.org/stable/10.1086/661256

Most jurisdictions require motorcycle riders to wear pretty through safety gear, such as a helmet and protective clothing.

I live in Florida, where motorcycle riders are not required to wear helmets while those riding in cars are required to wear seat belts.

I live in Washington state and all motorcycle riders are required to wear a helmet, just like all motorcycle riders in California, DC and 16 other US states, as well as motorcycle riders in Canada, Mexico, Australia, New Zealand, all of Europe, etc.

Like I said: Most jurisdictions require motorcycle riders to wear pretty through safety gear, such as a helmet and protective clothing.

Motorcycle safety gear is great for keeping the corpse in one package. I don’t see how it does anything to keep the rider from being ejected from the vehicle. It baffles me that we are very paternal about drivers of cars and allow motorcycle riders on the same roads.

You know this isn’t true. They do tests on this gear (particularly the helmets), and they are required to pass a number of these tests and fulfill a certain standard. If this gear provided no additional safety, then these tests would show it.

This is unless you believe the tests don’t really reflect reality, but then you are objecting science accepted by several regulatory bodies. You’ll have to give me more evidence than your word against decades of experiments and expert opinions.

I never claimed that safety gear provided no additional safety.

Another commenter pointed out that unhelmeted motorcyclists contribute to the supply of organs (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37027107), so I think it all works out.

> unhelmeted motorcyclists contribute to the supply of organs

I don’t get the impression that neither the commenter, nor the paper cited, thinks this is a good thing.

Neither did I get that impression. I was speaking only for myself. Maybe the inconsistency in the law is good from a utilitarian point of view.

I could be wrong, but it sounds like you are implying that the organs of some people are worth more than the lives the same same people.

Regardless, the discussion has come a long way from:

Motorcycles should be banned if seatbelts are enforced

→ But motorcycles have safety laws as well to protect the rider

→ Not where I live

→ But in other places they do

→ Well I’ll imply—but not state—that those safety rules don’t protect the riders

→ But the safety gear does* protect riders*

→ And then something about organ harvesting of accidents.

This is a silly debate. You’ve convinced me of nothing, you had a point there somewhere, but it got lost in irrelevance. Both motorcycle riders and automobile drivers have safety gear for their own self preservation which they are required to use in most places. Yes there are exceptions to this (such as Florida; or riders of scooters/light motorcycles) but also to cars (New Hampshire does not have seat belt requirements to 17+; neither do many states in India; Bus riders don’t have to wear seat belts in many places; tractors don’t require seat belts; etc.)

I remain baffled at the silliness. I am not trying to convince you of anything.

I was surprised it was just 16 states, and Hawaii wasn't one of those. TIL, I guess.

Sorry, *16 additional states. The total is 19 (including DC).

29 have some age restrictions, where people under a certain age must wear helmets while riding, and only 3 have no laws requiring riders to wear helmets. I think Puerto Rico has a pretty strict helmet wearing law since 2007[1]. I haven’t found any data about the other territories.

1: https://www.nhtsa.gov/sites/nhtsa.gov/files/documents/812397...

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