Comment by robot_no_421 | Hacker News Reader

Comment by robot_no_421 | Hacker News Reader

Parent Full thread

Even if those people aren't using computers at their job (and I even disagree with that), they still use computers. A baker with a computer and internet access has access to more recipes than a baker without a computer. A baker with a website and an online presence is finding more customers than a baker who only exists in the real world.

As a matter of fact, the new boiler my plumber (who has a webpage and I found online, mind you) recently installed has computer chips and circuits. My plumber seems very technically literate and knowledgeable about the tech as well.

Police offices are now using AI to catch people. Even before, they were using computers in criminology for DNA samples.

So all of the professions you listed use computers all the time for their job. Both directly and indirectly. A baker without internet, a plumber with no computer knowledge, a police office stuck using analog tools are all worse off than their tech savvy counterparts.

> A baker with a website and an online presence is finding more customers than a baker who only exists in the real world.

I can say for sure that this is simply not true. There are bakeries without websites that make a killing, while at the same time there are smaller ones in the same areas trying to drum up business online with less success.

You're picking exceptions to the rule and claiming that those exceptions invalidate the whole rule. Sure some bakeries are just better than others, a good bakery with no website will do better than a bad bakery with a website.

But all things considered, having an online presence always helps your business. A fantastic bakery with a website will get more customers than a fantastic bakery with no website.

I think you picked the worst example ever. The success of a bakery is based on 3 things:

1) location

2) location

3) location

Everything else doesn't matter. Nobody goes online every day to see "Gee, I wonder which artisanal bakery I'm going to drive to today, and I'm going to make my decision based on which bakery has the flashiest website".

If websites mattered, then small businesses wouldn't have the crappiest websites ever.

Wow, only location, huh? Doesn't matter if their product is actually good? And I guess if there are two bakeries in the same location (happens every day in these places called "cities"), I will just pick randomly then.

If you really think bakers don't benefit from using computers, then you're just not thinking very hard. I always look up the reviews of the bakeries I go to if I'm buying a cake or something. I wouldn't risk buying something at a bakery without checking online if it's worth it or not.

>If websites mattered, then small businesses wouldn't have the crappiest websites ever.

If websites DIDNT matter, these small businesses would not have websites at all. I'm not saying you need a good website. You just need any website for discovery. Your example actually supports my arguement - why would small businesses be wasting time with websites unless it helped them?

> I wouldn't risk buying something at a bakery without checking online if it's worth it or not.

You wouldn’t risk spending on $7 on a loaf of bread to try out whether a bakery is good or not?

I’m sorry but that just sounds ridiculous on its face. The average reviewer has no taste to begin with.

> You just need any website for discovery.

No, what they need is to claim ownership of a Google Maps entry and a Yelp page. I don’t know if I’ve ever visited a bakery’s website in my life, but I've found plenty by searching Google Maps.

The last thing I bought from a bakery was a $50 dollar cheesecake for a birthday party. And you can bet I looked up reviews from at least 5-10 different bakeries. And also visited their websites. But sure, whatever you think.

You're just doubling down on your own stupid argument and not providing any interesting rebuttals to what I'm saying. The reviewers are wrong, Yelp is wrong, the internet is wrong, bakers CANNOT benefit from using the internet! Go get your birthday cake from the first bakery you see, I don't care. You're not really raising good points. If anything, you're just highlighting how little you know about using the internet to find new businesses. The fact that you've never visited a baker's website just means you either don't care or know about picking high quality products when it matters. It's a you problem, not the baker's problem.

Fair enough, I wasn't thinking about expensive one-off purchases.

Still don't get why they need a website. An out of date menu showing prices from the 2010s, I guess? Just look them up along with reviews on Google Maps or Yelp and call them to order the cake. But hey what do I know, I've only done it dozens of times... this past year alone.

Instead of me trying to explain it to you, maybe just try it yourself.

You saying "I've never needed this and I never tried it, so I don't understand why anyone else would" isn't exactly a robust argument. In fact, why would I bother listening to your opinion on a feature you've never even tried? Most websites have info about hours, prices, products, FAQs that are up to date. Your mental model of what's in a website is wildly off, especially in 2023 when everyone's on social media.

This is just obviously not true. Any location which is good enough that a bakery could survive without any repeat business would have such high rents that no bakery would be able to survive (or at least, it would be very difficult).

I view the parent's comment as a statistical statement (e.g. better off on average), not a literal absolute statement. That's usually what people mean when they make statements about large sets of people/things.

Yeah, that’s how I viewed it too. I figured it was just an assumption on their part, rather than an accurate statistical statement.

> A baker with a website and an online presence is finding more customers than a baker who only exists in the real world.

Oh yeah there's a nice bakery 400km from here… I'll just go there rather than the usual one down the street! /s

You've only got two bakeries where you live? One 400km away and one down your block? You've never found a new restaurant online? You've never looked at reviews on yelp?

Idk what to tell you. Based on your example (only search results for bakeries are 400km away), the problem is where you live, not the internet.

I'm sure there are bakeries from here to the 400km away one. But even if they are 5km, why bother? Unless the nearby one is so bad that it can't be considered altogether.

If you live in an area where there's only one bakery in town, then there's no pressure at all for that bakery to improve their process. What is your point? I live in a city where it's common to see multiple bakeries on the same block and where I could visit a new bakery every week for the rest of my life.

Again, it sounds like your little town or wherever you live is just lame. If there is no competition, there's no reason to innovate. I'm sure every business in your (real or hypothetical) town is years behind the curve in every metric if your only factor for patronizing a business is "well, it's the only one close by".

Ah, a firm believer in the bullshit of the invisible hand! I find horoscopes to be much more science based to be honest.

> your little town or wherever you live is just lame

I'm sure you're aware that the term "lame" is offensive, discriminatory, and should really be avoided?

>I'm sure you're aware that the term "lame" is offensive, discriminatory, and should really be avoided?

I get a strong feeling that you were bullied in school when you were a kid.

I get a strong feeling that you're an ableist and generally an asshole.

Well at least I have more than one bakery in my neighborhood, so it could be worse.

Yes I'm sure the invisible hand will magically make them decent, lol.

Enjoy your fantasies mr internet bully :D

Reply on news.ycombinator.com