Apple's soldered-in SSDs are engineered in the WORST way possible [video] | Hacker News Reader

Apple's soldered-in SSDs are engineered in the WORST way possible [video]

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28 pointsxbmcuser61 comments

This in nothing new or surprising. Virtually everything Apple has engineered for decades prioritizes Apple's interests over the users in some way.

iPhones don't support memory cards or wired headphones for the same reason.

I tell all my Apple friends to name something their $1000 iPhone does that my $200 Motorola can't. I can name several simple, practical, useful things an iPhone can't do --- not because Apple can't do it but because they don't want to.

I made the mistake of showing an Applehead how I could use a Windows PC to archive photos from an iPhone to a memory card and free up space. This unleased a stream of requests from others to do the same.

This should be just as easy to do in the Appleverse garden but apparently it's not --- because Apple prefers you buy a new iPhone or pay for on-line storage instead.

Do people really spend significant amounts of time arguing whose phone is better in the real world?

Yes, and it almost always tends to be people who barely use their devices to their full capabilities. Power users know better - they use whatever tool is best for the job.

"Power users" are more often than not the ones doing the all arguing. HN and Reddit are the best examples of that.

People who just buy the newer version of their favorite phone don't even care enough to argue.

Even the people who care too much about blue or green bubbles don't give a damn about which phone has more RAM or CPU, or which OS is better, or UX, or whatever. They never stop to compare.

You could say in a sense, people who care about whether the recipient of a text has imessage do care about UX, I just wish the avg person understands that most if not all of the features and consistency imessage provides can be achieved with signal or whatsapp.

Point is they rarely care about which platform has better UX, similarly to how they don't care about how much RAM the competitor has or the CPU. Only few people stop to compare, even less make time to argue about it.

Of course normal users care about UX, even if they don't know what the acronym means.

I highly doubt most who claim to be "Power Users" on the internet would be classified as such in the truest sense of the word; they simply enjoy complaining about trends in technology, & engage in posturing & outrage when a feature or design is gradually phased out over time. Most who extol the supposed "customizability" of android phones are highly unlikely to use any feature they mention on a day-to-day basis. Android's most useful feature, in my opinion is to side load apps. However, it seems this isn't something most android foresee the average user utilizing on a daily basis, and possibly as a vulnerability; from my understanding, modern android phones require you to enter a password to enable the side loading of apps. It's cell phone, I really dont' understand these advantages outside of say price point (apple cannot compete with android when it comes to budget), and the flexibility of side loading software in extenuating circumstances(say the app store complying with a government's request restrict access to e2ee messaging apps).

> Power users know better - they use whatever tool is best for the job.

I completely agree, actual power users simply use the device that is the best fit for an application, rather than crusading in the replies of threads across various sites, spreading the word of how greedy & terrible the design decisions <insert company here> makes.

The same self proclaimed "power users" will often imply that individuals who choose to use certain products possess lesser tech literacy. I don't really understand the logic behind that sentiment; obviously if a company markets their products as "just working", it will attract the average person. That's not an indication of tech illiteracy or laziness, it makes sense. Why wouldn't I want my cell phone to simply "just work?" on demand, with as little friction as possible (i.e software updates, particularly security updates are pushed out in a timely manner, overall software stability)? I know plenty of extremely tech literate people (PhDs in Computer Engineering & Computer Science) who choose to use an iPhone year after year. If you're expending most of your mental energy in your research & work with technology, why would you want the communication device you use on a daily basis to be something you have to tinker with, and configure in a non-standard way? That sounds like something I would do with say a raspberry pi, a piece of technology that I like employ my above average understanding of tech on, to customize it or achieve some really neat end goal.

Also to add, I agree, non standard hardware design is anti user and annoying, but apple doing so is not news, (in other news, the sky is blue type thing). If we want to prevent this, we need to push for regulations that force apple to comply.

Theres is one thing non apple manufacturers can’t do: iOS

I’ve given old iphones / helped purchase new ones to my Android friends over the years - none got back to android.

The experience is subjective but a well designed user interface with attention to detail an very responsive hardware/software combination that keeps working like that after 4+ years beats every other option. Specially after apple focused on selling services and now old devices seem more performant than ever.

Also you don’t need a $1000 iPhone - a refurbished 2nd gen SE is about 250 on amazon.

I disagree. This isn’t Mac System 6 vs Windows3

The Apple brand carries the day now. It’s called “aspirational luxury”. Even PhD students who could solder together a laptop with parts off Alibaba still want a MBP because: sex.

PS: What’s more powerful: “aspirational luxury” or “fame seeking”? I think Apple better build-up that SharePlay feature a whole lot (and come up with ancillary features to identify and add people with whom to SharePlay) or we are all going to find out in VisionPro vs QuestPro.

> It’s called “aspirational luxury”. Even PhD students who could solder together a laptop with parts off Alibaba still want a MBP because, you know: sex.

It's really not though, for me. I resisted going Mac for many years, to my personal detriment. I finally threw in the towel during a business trip where my current Thinkpad was getting less than 2.5hrs per charge, while the MBP I picked up at Best Buy lasted 12+.

I haven't looked back for laptops ever since, and w/ the M2 the gap is growing even more.

The form factor is far and away a secondary consideration these days to it simply being useful as a tool. Perhaps the windows laptop ecosystem has caught up since - but Apple would have to fuck up for me to consider it a priority worth spending the time on switching again. A $1,000 "apple tax" every 3-5 years when I need a new one is money well spent to avoid such things.

Mobile devices are similar. I'm still on Android, but just barely. The ecosystem continues to get worse in my opinion, and a lot of the benefits of "open" are slowly being eroded into a shittier version of the Apple walled garden.

For me, personally, I'd be in the market for Apple devices that are "skinned" to look like they are not Apple devices. I actually hate bringing my Macbook out with me since it makes you stand out as a target for theft in some areas. I use them because they simply get the job done better for me, and my daily computing is no longer a hobby I enjoy tinkering around with.

Well said. For Macs specifically I just tell people for me it is basically Linux where the hardware always works really well and you don’t have to screw around with drivers.

When I was a PhD student, I switched to a MBP because I had more interesting things to solder (and code, analyze, write, etc). I wanted something that just worked and keeping it that way would be someone else’s problem.

“Sex” definitely didn’t enter into it!

There's also the fact that the most powerful laptops on the market are made by Apple.

I work as a software engineer, my daily driver is Macbook Pro (m1, 16gb) and update them every 3 years on average. Do you know how much downtime I’ve had b/c broken package updates (linux), long unapproved software updates (win) malware or hardware failures? exactly zero.

That’s not luxury, thats a good tool to do the job for me.

I tried iOS. The fact that you can't even do something as basic as alphabetize your app icons was infuriating to me. And it was even more infuriating when they finally added some way to access your apps as alphabetically as a scrolling list at the very end of the home screen with less priority than their terrible AI auto-categorized apps. It doesn't really scream attention to detail when they put "Mini Metro" in an auto group with transit apps.

> I tell all my Apple friends to name something their $1000 iPhone does that my $200 Motorola can't.

Lockdown mode.

> iPhones don't support memory cards or wired headphones

You’re right about memory cards, but wrong about wired headphones. They work just fine, I just either need headphones with a Lightning plug or a Lightning to 3.5mm adapter, similar to all the Android phones that don’t have a 3.5mm headphone jack, but replace Lightning with USB-C.

Yes, if you buy an Android phone without an industry standard headphone jack, you have to deal with the same problems as an iPhone. Or you can select a phone where it's simple.

Lightning and USB-C headphones and adapters exist, of course, but it's easier to have one set of headphones that works for everything except the gameboy advance (nintendo learned and went back to 3.5mm), and has an adapter taped to the receiver if you want to plug into your receiver.

Headphone jacks are no longer common on Android phones either so this is a very strange dig at Apple. Samsung, Google, and most other mainstream companies haven’t included them in years.

The official adapter from Apple costs $9 and works flawlessly.

https://www.apple.com/shop/product/MMX62AM/A/lightning-to-35...

Kind of sucks when you're on a flight and have to pick between charging the phone and listening to the movie.

That is a legitimate criticism. There are adapters that enable this, but they're a bit more expensive.

I guess Apple's official answer to that is either bluetooth earbuds like AirPods or using MagSafe to charge.

They also removed it after ridiculing Apple for the move.

Nah Android folks still have refurbished LG phone or ROG phone to buy to be honest. Top tier DAC chip is embedded into the phone directly. If you are not using top tier TypeC DAC cost 200USD or something, your sound quality lose in every aspect.

ROG phone current has the best audio hardware but guess who's second? It's LG. LG from 2019 still holds the throne if Asus didn't realize they should put a DAC inside ROG phone 5.

How much longer are these LG phones supported by security updates? They left the Android market years ago.

I think part of the headphone jack removal was water proofing.

They prefer that you think that. There's nothing about a 3.5mm jack that prevents it being waterproof.

It does prevent millions of people buying Earpods, however.

> I tell all my Apple friends to name something their $1000 iPhone does that my $200 Motorola can't.

I’m not an “Apple friend” but I use Apple phones. My 4 year old $400 iPhone SE still gets updates and runs every app that since the day I bought it.

Does your Motorola do that?

My phone also doesn’t send forced telemetry to Google for use in selling ads to me. That’s kind of a big deal, I think.

I don’t think I’ve talked to anyone to argue over whose phone is better for years. And I don’t think a company is “better” than another. But there are certainly some things that Apple phones do that Android phones don’t.

Does your Motorola do that?

Yes, it does. Because I did something with my Motorola that you can't do with Apple --- I replaced the ROM.

My phone also doesn’t send forced telemetry to Google

No, your phone sends forced telemetry to Apple --- most likely so they can sell it to Google.

https://www.tomsguide.com/news/android-ios-data-collection

sounds like you’re talking more about your ability to create what you want and less about why you prefer a given phone maker over another.

it’s apple telling you no, isn’t it?

the thing that motivates you to start these internet conversations.

Depending on community support isn’t the same as getting security updates from the vendor…

No, in some cases it's actually better.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/gordonkelly/2021/10/13/apple-ip...

> Because I did something with my Motorola that you can't do with Apple

I jailbreak Apple devices too. But there’s no way I’m recommending that to a friend as it’s not a sustainable consumer strategy.

Google and Motorola don’t support their devices as well as Apple. It’s great that you have a community solution, but unless I want to play tech support to people, I’m not suggesting devices that require community support just for basic security patches.

Or for editing out privacy invading default functions.

Or for editing out privacy invading default functions.

So, it's much better to leave those in place so Apple can earn some extra cash?

https://www.tomsguide.com/news/android-ios-data-collection

However, the researchers' iPhone transmitted more kinds of data, including device location, the device's local Internet Protocol (IP) address and the Wi-Fi network identifiers — the MAC addresses — of other devices on the local network, including home Wi-Fi routers.

> I tell all my Apple friends to name something their $1000 iPhone does that my $200 Motorola can't.

Privacy?

Though iOS is, out of the box, more private than stock (non-AOSP) Android, nothing compares to a custom ROM. You can even debloat android and disable play services, if you don't want to risk bricking your device, or if there aren't any custom ROMs available.

Of course, the average Joe wouldn't do that, but I guess most people on HN are quite tech savvy.

I for one have built enough Linux kernels from scratch, and patched enough Linux drivers into working — thanks, so no one can call me an average Joe when it comes to tech. However, I mostly left all of that behind outside of work years ago, I’m desperate for time, not money, and I have way better things to do with my time than dick around with a custom android build, thanks. You do you, but Apple provides me with a ‘good enough’ service that saves me a lot of time.

No, sorry. Just because you drank the Apple Cider doesn't mean Apple isn't sucking up all your data ... and most likely selling it for cash.

https://www.tomsguide.com/news/android-ios-data-collection

My iPhone has a satellite distress beacon incase I get stranded without cell service…

Yes, and there will be a substantial (but as yet unrevealed) monthly subscription fee for this "service" after 2 years.

> I tell all my Apple friends to name something their $1000 iPhone does that my $200 Motorola can't.

You do this all the time?

> I can name several simple, practical, useful things an iPhone can't do --- not because Apple can't do it but because they don't want to.

Name them. We have plenty of electrons.

> I made the mistake of showing an Applehead how I could use a Windows PC to archive photos from an iPhone to a memory card and free up space.

Were they using iCloud Photos? Did they want to same physical space on the phone (could’ve used “Optimize iPhone Storage” in Photo settings), or did they want to not pay for additional iCloud storage?

Name them. We have plenty of electrons.

I just named two --- add storage and use wired headphones.

did they want to not pay for additional iCloud storage?

They just did not want to pay for additional storage.

And why should they? Oh, that right --- because Apple intentionally engineered this into their "walled garden".

If you are a Motorola (and I assume Android user) why do you care? I get it if you’re an Apple user and you have legitimate critiques, but you’re proclaiming, proudly, that you’re not.

Your comment comes off as envious and a massive waste of time and effort. If you don’t like Apple, what’s the point in wasting your time writing out a response about it? Just move on. Seems like there’s a little bit more to your Apple rant that just “I don’t like how Apple engineers stuff”.

Seems like there’s a little bit more to your Apple rant that just “I don’t like how Apple engineers stuff”.

There is --- I have Applehead friends who ask me to fix their phones for things that shouldn't need fixing.

In a lot of cases, they're looking to avoid the Apple solution which usually involves a subscription fee.

Why are you helping them? It’s their fault for being cheapasses while using an expensive phone. It’s like a BMW owner complaining about the price of premium gas.

It's what I do. I fix stuff --- and I know things.

lol You seem like the last person I’d ask for help. You would lecture the person needing help the entire time.

Apple doesn’t sell phones that “need” to be fixed. You just don’t like how they work, and that’s fine. Doesn’t mean you have to show your ass any time anyone says the word “Apple”.

You just don’t like how they work

Yes, you're right. I just don't like companies who practice blatant profiteering at user expense. But in your case, I'll make an exception. Get ready to grab your ankles, a new iPhone is coming soon.

Very strange way to look at a company. By definition they are trying to make a profit.

I use an iPhone. I like the experience. It’s not my entire personality. It doesn’t define me.

You seem to want to live in a world where people are defined by their technology purchases because you believe your choices are better and it gives you a weird sense of superiority. It doesn’t, and you should really consider being less angry about it.

Excited to see what they release in the new iPhone, though. I’m sure it’ll be very usable, fleshed out features that I don’t have to deal with constantly to make work. After all, my time is my most valuable asset and it’s well worth the extra $5 or whatever a month for everything to work.

It can browse the Web and watch YouTube without ads and tracking, which is the big one for me.

I can easily do the same --- for a fraction of the cost.

A fraction of the cost of what? The $1000 you save by not buying an iPhone?

Apple media messaging integration in the blue bubble is the killer feature

> I made the mistake of showing an Applehead how I could use a Windows PC to archive photos from an iPhone to a memory card and free up space. This unleased a stream of requests from others to do the same.

> This should be just as easy to do in the Appleverse garden but apparently it's not --- because Apple prefers you buy a new iPhone or pay for on-line storage instead.

I backup my iCloud photos automatically to a free Dropbox account. My Windows PC then routinely moves the contents of the Dropbox backup folder onto my NAS.

This is NOT a Ford vs. Chevy debate. It's a Ford vs. Uber debate. Apple people buy their products because it gives them an ecosystem that meets their needs. It's not for everyone, but it is for a lot of us.

I'm not sure why you are so perturbed by Apple. Do you have that same anger towards Lamborghini because your Corolla can do everything it does, but at 10x the price?

Honestly, this discussion is just stupid. If you like green instead of blue, then that's what you like! Why do you want green to act like blue? It's green - it shouldn't act like blue!

/rant

Agreed. But remember there are lots of people in the apple ecosystem who try to bully people into it. There are people out there who won't associate with people who are green, they only want blue bubbles on their screen.

It's a real shame that Apple is this way (and certain other brands) when there are genuine reasons for why macbooks are pretty darn good (arm, battery life, etc.), of course when you carve out a Walled garden like apple it's no wonder though.

I'd like to see what Hector Martin -- you know, someone who actually knows something about Apple device internals -- says about this. He had a Mastodon thread recently on how full of shit Louis is about almost every engineering decision Apple makes. Apple prioritizes speed, security, and usability over repairability. Peripherals such as the touch screen in an iPhone or iPad, for instance, have signed firmware and encrypted configuration to prevent the touch screen being used as an attack vector.

Doubtless something similar is happening with the SSD. Given how sensitive the data thereupon is, it would make sense to have signed and verified SSD firmware and keep the encryption keys for the SSD in the Secure Enclave or something. Apple's integrated approach allows for the design of a far more secure system than the bucket of swappable parts we normally think of as a PC. Part swappers like Louis badmouthing them for lack of reapirability is in poor taste; Apple is doing something way different (and far more advanced, and far more protective of the user) than the typical PC vendor.

>Apple prioritizes speed, security, and usability over repairability.

haha, you forgot reliability for perfect joke.

This video explains how Apple SSDs work https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yR7m4aUxHcM "replace EVERY DEAD SSD for M1 Max, M1 Pro, M1 & T2 Mac, T1 Mac, BONUS:M1 Ultra (FOR DUDES IN DENIAL)"

He suggests you should be able to just clone your drive and boot from it over usb-c. Surely he knows the security implications of that? In fact he neglects to mention any security reasons Apple might have for this design.

I agree with some of his points, but can’t form an opinion because he ignores the security implications.

Many OEMs want us to believe that we have to sacrifice modularity and serviceability in the pursuit of miniaturization, better performance, privacy and security. I'm not so convinced. It feels like they were neglected and perhaps intentionally undermined and then blamed on the other features.

If it wasn't because of the ARM transition I just wish they remake the Pre 2016 MacBook Pro and fit in a newer Intel Mobile SoC and not touch anything else.

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