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Comment by thebooktocome | Hacker News Reader

Where did they say one has to install the app? They use the web interface exclusively and the feature that went missing was a web interface feature. . .

> “For about a decade now, OverDrive has provided users with digital library access two ways: through its website (individual library portals hosted on overdrive.com) and its mobile apps (OverDrive and Libby). I’ve always gone the web route myself — at first because it was the only option, before the app was built; later deliberately avoiding the app in order to reduce the amount of surveillance data collected.”

As for the feature itself, your comment seems to boil down to “Dark pattern UI changes are ineffective” but we know that’s not true; if they were unprofitable, companies wouldn’t constantly exploit them.

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> ...or its mobile app Libby.

Libby isn't just a mobile app

> ...through its website (individual library portals hosted on overdrive.com) and its mobile apps (OverDrive and Libby). I’ve always gone the web route myself — at first because it was the only option, before the app was built; later deliberately avoiding the app in order to reduce the amount of surveillance data collected.

Once again stating Overdrive is the website and Libby is only an app, while missing Libby is also a website.

> Okay, so at the very least, OverDrive is trying to force people away from the web and into their proprietary app

Here they're directly stating the functionality they're looking for is only in the app, which as stated Libby is available as a website so this is factually incorrect.

> Disgruntled, I downloaded Libby and tried to figure out how to “add a ‘Notify Me’ tag”.

If they knew Libby was a website and they hated the idea of installing the app, why would they disgruntly download the app?

> you must first run a search, and then activate the “deep search” filter tag (!?!) in the search interface. Because that is intuitive and makes total sense.

I mean, kind of? Huh, I couldn't find it from the basic search, let me press the advanced search button, oh hey there's a description of what deep search is right in the advanced search filter area, neat.

And as an actual user of the feature that discovered it entirely organically, I don't see how it's a dark pattern at all on the client side.

I don’t really see the point of applying rigorous ontology to a blog post.

Adding dead clicks to a feature you don’t want people to use is a dark pattern whether it affects you personally or not. Normally one tries to remove dead clicks in good UX design, e.g.: https://userpilot.com/blog/dead-click/

Some real fraction of users really will stop using a feature if you add a single additional click between it and them.

Who said hiding titles not currently available is a dead click?

Personally I prefer knowing right away if a title is available or not from the search page instead of thinking I might be able to get it right away only to find out when I get into it that its not available. So yeah, I prefer to hide those under the advanced search instead of having a search result with hundreds of items of which only a dozen or so are actually consumable immediately. It was super annoying having to wade through tons of results which I couldn't even access anyways, and its not like requesting it would make it available in minutes.

Imagine searching a store front for some item like a shirt. You get thousands of results, practically every shirt ever made. In the old app, you have to step into each individual result to see if its actually for sale or not or you can click a button and maybe someday they might consider stocking it for you. Is this not a dead click?

Which one is more of a dead click, going into an item page expecting to access it but not being able to access it, or just not seeing it in the default view? In the end the result is the same, the user couldn't just hop into the book.

If dead clicks are to be avoided, the Libby is miles ahead of Overdrive. I've had many hundreds more dead clicks in Overdrive than I had in Libby, and I've used Libby way more than Overdrive.

Have you actually used these platforms? If not, are you really going to tell someone who actually uses these platforms every day what their experience is actually like while you've never used it?

Yes, I’ve used Libby and OverDrive at various points. It’s pretty hard to avoid them if one frequents a library at all. Since, you know, the whole monopoly thing.

I don’t believe I ever told you how to feel about your UX with these. . . hmm, I guess “products”? If we’re not calling them apps.

> I don’t believe I ever told you how to feel about your UX with these

You kind of did, by bringing up the idea of dark patterns and dead clicks you were absolutely critiquing the UI.

> If we’re not calling them apps

You're being quite obtuse about this. The author clearly felt Libby was only consumable as an installed app on a mobile device. You argue "Where did they say one has to install the app?" while completely ignoring the "Disgruntled, I downloaded Libby" and all the other times where they expressed Overdrive is a website while Libby is an app. Like, sure, one could call both "apps", but one big point the author was making was that Libby was something they had to install, as in, a mobile app delivered through an app store with potentially more permissions than just a web page on their browser or not consumable on their desktop/laptop/other device.

I don't get how you're continuing to argue like the author didn't think they needed to install the app, when they literally wrote "Disgruntled, I downloaded Libby..." Can you really not acknowledge the author was confused and didn't know Libby was available as a website? You honestly can't see that in their writing?

OverDrive is also integrated with many e-Readers, which seems like a weird omission as it is the best way to read ebooks in my opinion. I personally cant imagine reading a book on a smartphone.

Libby also supports delivery to many e-Readers which support Adobe Digital Editions. Books checked out in Libby will be available to Kobo devices with Overdrive sync if available in Overdrive.

I don't see how its an omissions when it does exist.

I was referring to this bit "OverDrive has provided users with digital library access two ways: through its website and its mobile apps"

Omitting the third way (e-readers) is weird.

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