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Comment by liber8 | Hacker News Reader

Coming from an American perspective (where, when you are in public, you have basically no expectation of privacy), this seems insane.

Does this mean that if I'm filming a vlog at Brandenburg Gate (which inevitably includes video of other people in the background enjoying the area), I'm in violation of privacy laws?

Does that mean if I take a video selfie of me and my family members (which, again, includes images of others in the background, and which is automatically uploaded to icloud) I'm a data processor and am in violation of privacy laws?

I assume there is some line here, but I can't think of the logic separating a person's dashcam from my examples?

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The European perspective is broadly to have the "freedom from", whereas the American one is the "freedom to".

You've got the freedom to aquire an arsenal, I don't, but I prefer the freedom from other people gunning down my kids, which by extension limits the narrow personal freedoms of myself and others.

Likewise, the American perspective is to draw a hard line on "in public", the European one is more nuanced.

Yes, you can film your vlog without fear, but a random pedestrian in Berlin also has the freedom from being associated with your public vlog.

Therefore you have a responsibility to either get their permission to broadcast it, or to anonymize them.

A useful way to think about it is to shift your view from "can I do X?" to "will I bother anyone else by doing X?".

A useful way to think about it is to shift your view from "can I do X?" to "will I bother anyone else by doing X?".

I don't think that's particularly useful, because the answer to the second is trivially Yes, regardless of the value of X.

>the answer to the second is trivially Yes, regardless of the value of X

then don't do it?

Your response to "by that metric, essentially almost everything is disallowed" is "well yeah, just don't do it". I don't think that stance would sit well with most.

There are still many people bothered by the fact, that I as a men have long hair.

I am sorry to dissapoint you and those people, but for now I keep my hair.

You cannot please everyone and I think it is a path into madness to even try it. There are maaany things people feel bothered about …

Are you suggesting that someone could shut down all human activity on the European continent by declaring that everything bothers them?

There is a lot of leeway to be had between "will I bother anyone else by doing X" and "will anyone else be bothered by me doing X": it's active interference versus passive objection-taking. Socially aware people can learn the difference.

> Does this mean that if I'm filming a vlog at Brandenburg Gate (which inevitably includes video of other people in the background enjoying the area),

I don't know about the law in Germany but I think it is very impolite in any country. You should ask people's permission before putting them online. On Japanese TV they blur out faces of people passing by for example when filming an interview in the street.

Broadly speaking the line is: someone in the background, appearing briefly: fine.

Taking photos of specific people in public without their consent: not fine.

> Does this mean that if I'm filing a vlog at Brandenburg Gate (which inevitably includes video of other people in the background enjoying the area), I'm in violation of privacy laws?

No (at least not in France, which also has pretty stringent privacy policy so I think it's still a relevant answer) you can film people or cars in public streets but you cannot do any kind of data processing on the things you film (you can't keep a database with the license plates you have on your personal videos for instance).

In short the line is: pictures and films by themselves are OK [1], but doing anything with the personal info you get from those video is forbidden.

[1]: (under conditions, you must not cause harm in the process: for instance no “happy slapping” videos)

As other have pointed out, the rules on photography vary from country to country within the bloc. However, the rules governing data protection and the processing of personal data (including photos) come from the GDPR, and very basically say that any processing of personal data requires a valid legal basis.

There is an exception for personal use - the household exemption - but as soon as you cross the line into commercial operations or certain activities such as publishing, creating databases, etc, you lose the benefit of that exception.

That doesn't mean you can't continue, just that you now need a legal basis and need to follow the rules (inform data subjects, allow the right to be forgotten, etc).

So in general, dashcams are fine (unless a local law prohibits them) as you have a legitimate interest in recording your driving in case of an accident. Creating a facial recognition or ANPR database with the same footage would be unlawful, however.

Why is A[LN]PR unlawful for private citizens to perform on their own footage? (e.g. using https://www.openalpr.com)

It's unlawful as it means you lose the household exemption, and so need a legal basis for the processing. You also need to inform others of the data collection in advance, the purpose for which the data is collected, and the contact details of the data controller.

Private ANPR-equipped vehicles are rare (and outright illegal in some EU states), but when you see them they'll have large decals with the above information on all sides.

Facial recognition is considered biometric data, which is special category data under the GDPR and forbidden to process except in very strict circumstances. Apart from law enforcement/government, it is more or less impossible to lawfully process biometric data with informed consent from the data subject. The household exemption does not apply.

There are differences between private photographs and commerical products.

Vlog/youtube would be considered to be potentially commerical .. so you would probably be responsible fore GDPR and likeness recording. (The onious is on you to blur)

Video selfie/photograph personal/non shared use - you're free do this

https://allaboutberlin.com/guides/photography-laws-germany

I am not a lawyer, nor is this legal advice.

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