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Comment by zihotki | Hacker News Reader

For me the title of the article is "The Cartel That Controls the US Meat Industry".

Same. This is about meat, although since a lot of our land is used to grow feed for livestock, subsidies for plant agriculture are indirectly subsidizing inefficient animal agriculture.

Calling meat agriculture inefficient makes no sense, when meat is a vital, and necessary food. Most of the world grazes meat animals, no crop feeding, and do so on land utterly unusable for crops.

If you want to dive into weirdo anti-meat statements, at least be sensible. We could just eat raw vitamins and eat bacteria paste too, instead of "inefficient" fertilizer driven crops.

It is still unclear if the land that is used for grazing could be suitable for growing crop that could be used for human consumption. Where do you think the grazing land comes from? Clearing natural habitat. And no, except for extreme conditions (like people living in extreme cold), meat is not a necessary food. An average human living in a city/village with moderate temperatures (especially when most of their time is spent inside buildings) does not need meat, they only want it.

We don't need those grazing lands for growing food (some nuts forests would be cool, though). We should afforest/rewild it to store maximum carbon in those lands, repair water cycle, enable biodiversity to return (70% of species is lost in the last 50 years or so), and use land for animal feed crops to feed humans instead.

If we'd switch to plant based diets, we'd free an area the size of Africa to return back to nature, storing enough carbon to return to 280ppm, stop biodiversity loss, while feeding comfortably 10+ billion people.

https://ourworldindata.org/land-use-diets

If the world adopted a plant-based diet we would reduce global agricultural land use from 4 to 1 billion hectares

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/26231772/

Biodiversity conservation: The key is reducing meat consumption

https://www.eurekalert.org/news-releases/917471

Feeding 10 billion people by 2050 within planetary limits may be achievable

A global shift towards healthy and more plant-based diets, halving food loss and waste, and improving farming practices and technologies are required to feed 10 billion people sustainably by 2050, a new study finds.

Ooh boy the numbers are bigger than I remember. I don't think the world will shift to a completely plant-based diet for the foreseeable future but we really do need to atleast move toward that reality.

> meat is a vital, and necessary food

Not true at all.

Plant-based diets were protective against cancers of the digestive system, with no significant differences between different types of cancer, a meta-analysis based on 3,059,009 subjects

https://www.dutchnews.nl/2023/04/meat-tax-would-boost-health...

Meat tax would boost health and cut healthcare spending: research

https://www.foodingredientsfirst.com/news/over-17000-doctors...

Over 17,000 doctors call on White House to shape nutrition policy on plant-based diets

"It is the position of the American Dietetic Association that appropriately planned vegetarian diets, including total vegetarian or vegan diets, are healthful, nutritionally adequate, and may provide health benefits in the prevention and treatment of certain diseases. Well-planned vegetarian diets are appropriate for individuals during all stages of the life cycle, including pregnancy, lactation, infancy, childhood, and adolescence, and for athletes." - American Dietetic Association

"A vegetarian or vegan diet can be suitable for everyone, regardless of their age." - NHS UK

"[I]t is possible to follow a well-planned, plant-based, vegan friendly diet that supports healthy living in people of all ages, and during pregnancy and breastfeeding." - British Dietetic Association.

"For adults, protein from two or more plant groups daily is like to be adequate. " - World Health Organisation

> Most of the world grazes meat animals, no crop feeding, and do so on land utterly unusable for crops

Yep, on deforested lands. 50+% of those pastures used to be forests. That's why we have droughts and climate change ... removing carbon sinks and destroying biodiversity just to have steaks on the table.

No crop feeding? 80% of grown soy is fed to animals. Half of the grains. 35-40% of corn (rest is biofuel, another stupidity). What about alfalfa, the reason why Colorado goes dry?

There are many reasons to avoid meat that don't apply to vegetables. First off the top of my head is it's a disease vector: both bacterial and viral (think swine and bird flus).

Secondly, water usage for meat is 2-5x the liters-per-kilogram of lentils, tofu, and 10x the rest of the staple vegetables.

Thirdly, every bite of meat on your plate carries an opportunity cost of all the nutritious benefits of eating a variety of vegetables. I could go into this further, but I think it's common knowledge that plant chemicals offer "vital and necessary" nutrition unavailable from meat.

Greenhouse gas emissions are also a factor that favors plant diets over meat.

I love a good prime rib, or a BLT, but the costs grossly outweigh the benefits.

> meat is a vital, and necessary food

And you talk about "weird" statements?

About 100% of the livestock land where I come from is capable of crops except for some edge cases. Not sure where you're getting the 'land used for animal meat is "utterly unusable for crops"' talking point. Could you provide some sources on that?

Every third or fourth plot is growing crops already. It seems to be a matter of choice and usually livestock farms here are based in heritage.

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