Online Safety Bill – Some futures
regulate.tech
regulate.tech
What content children get exposed to has always been the responsibility of parents. Assuming this bill has honest intentions (I don't believe it does) the issue here is more that parents are giving their children unrestricted access to the internet.
What we need to be doing (if anything) is giving parents more ability to regulate what content their kids have access to rather than simply putting that responsibility on the government and service providers.
ISPs should be making it much easier to for parents to add global content filters and device-specific filters. Both could easily be managed from an app and in my opinion this should be what the government should be focused on.
That said, what this seems to actually be is an attempt to crack down on content and speech the government (and perhaps the public generally) doesn't like.
The UK is an extremely authoritarian place, not because people here are generally authoritarian in nature in that we seek to control the behaviours of others, but because we're excessively conformist and polite. This bill exploits this aspect of our nature because few people in the UK are going to stick their necks out in defence online encryption or adult content.
For context for those who live the in US, in the UK if you're doing something impolite you're generally breaking the law...
Swearing in public? That's a public order offence. Saying something mean online? That's hate speech. Protesting fossil fuels? That's disruptive. And so on...
That said, even beyond a DNS filter theres a lot of stuff on popular sites (ie: Youtube specifically) that is REALLY bad. Seriously just go search some special characters (ie: . or ## or something like that) and you will get some crazy stuff that looks like kids stuff, but with jump cuts of shots from the exorcist or something. If you look at it from the lens of a grade schooler, its disturbing. Not to mention all the porn and stuff the filters dont find.
Im struggling to find a way to filter that. Maybe whitelist only some channels etc and just let the blocks work from there.
Curate your content manually, and select by hand what your kids will watch, or don't let them online at all. Since most parents are not willing, or most likely not even capable of doing this, legislation needs to be put in place to restrict what content can be shown to children.
I have to train them to be on the web. Its basically a skill they will need to learn.
Amazon actually has pretty solid controls for kids based on age. Its really solid. But as my kids get into gradeschool they cant just be using an amazon firetablet. They are having to learn how to use a laptop, touchpad, typing on a keyboard. My kindergartner literally gets their own login at school. Heck its how they do some testing now (dont get me started)
They dont watch a lot of youtube now. I tend to curate shows and put them on plex for them. Or let them go ham on PBS kids which generally has good stuff. But theres a TON of crap out there, some of it really bad. Bad both as in "reinforces or actively encourages asshole behavior" but also as in "im downright trying to scare or expose a child to something way out of bounds".
So we have to filter for both. But what my eldest can handle is different from a younger kid. IE: Harry potter gives my younger kid bad dreams. But is fine for my older kid.
What i may do and install something like Zenarmor/Sensei or just go full MDM and whitelist only specific videos or something. Frankly it will likely be a combination of tools. And may just have to say no to youtube/youtubekids full stop.
Beyond that we only allow them to watch certain channels and the tablets only get used for long car trips, and only already installed shows.
Ultimately you have to be proactive in it.
Tablets I’m much less concerned about as I usually cache apps/shows and manage access via physical means (ie: we take them away and only doll them out for trips or as a reward)
The recent legal changes that criminalise peaceful protest are part of the same pattern. They can see social fracturing coming in the near future - due to austerity, economic mismanagement, climate breakdown, etc. - and they're getting their retribution in early.
true, but the problem a friend of mine has is that he has no control over internet access for his kids outside his home.
this matter isn’t black and white.
> in the UK if you're doing something impolite you're generally breaking the law... Swearing in public? That's a public order offence. Saying something mean online? That's hate speech. Protesting fossil fuels? That's disruptive. And so on..
it’s exactly the same across europe.
At home my parents were always very careful what content I was exposed to. With very few exceptions I wasn't allowed to watch / play films and video games that were 12+ until I was in secondary school.
But outside my home (especially coming from a crappy neighbourhood) I was exposed to a lot of explicit content from other children (and their parents).
Obviously the internet exacerbates this problem, but short of outlawing the entire internet there's very little that can actually be done about that. Even with all of the proposed restrictions kids will still be able to access explicit content if their parents allow them to do so.
So if what we really want is to empower parents then there are better ways to do this at home via ISPs and routers with configurable content filters.
And if we want proof for this then we should remember that this isn't an issue that exists at school because they have the internet locked down. The idea that the only way to we empower parents is by handing control to the government and corporations makes no sense. The issue is that parents either don't care to or don't know how to restrict content. If it's the former, this isn't a problem (assuming you believe rights of the parent trump that of the state), if it's latter, then let's just create regulation for ISPs to ensure they're providing sufficiently easy and capable content filters.
Requiring all content providers operating in the UK break encryption and implement their own content filters is beyond absurd. It really only makes sense if you assume the state is doing this intentionally as a power grab.
If this comes to pass, I thank you for taking one for the team. I would also welcome you to Australia, but with the disclaimer that you may need to move from here before too long as well.
Like MSTRKRFT
I'd like to think that my ability to communicate via the written word would imply a healthy functioning ability to think critically, which I further hope would imply that I'm able to think past base, lizard brain reactions that are so irrationally toxic in a global society context.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/kalevleetaru/2018/12/04/why-aus...
as i've written in other threads, the direction of travel re. internet policy is pretty clear around the world. and it's not just politicians. it's universities, policy centers, NGOs, you name it.
Maybe we'll all just have everyone login with a few accredited providers and that's it (OAuth with email and date of birth).
It's incredibly stupid, but I've stopped believing that intelligence wins in the long-run.
Impractical, badly thought-out measures like this make me dispair for the future of my country and my children and my job. It will not work, but it will hobble our economy and society.
Why not just have ISPs block IP addresses? Have IP blocking default to on, but allow the customer (who is over 18) be able to opt out.
Then have the services split up under-18 and 18+ IP addresses?
Seems much better than having to have websites magically determine age. It puts most of the onus on ISPs, but would be fairly simple on their end, and little to no affect on adults or parents who decide to take responsibility.
(I guess this is more in context of Louisiana law, not necessarily UK, which has more of a encryption aspect as well.)
If they're mandated with blocking encryption then that's an issue with the government and not Ofcom, surely?
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/vpns-online-s...
That said, it won't be much of a change, so... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
The only solutions for this are political.
What do you mean by:
"you’re basically putting up a sign declaring your intention to violate local laws"
and "banning VPN clients which won’t geolocate to the country level"
?Are you saying that using any kind of VPN for any purpose at all would mean you'd get flagged as having intention to violate the law? And what does it mean for a VPN client to geolocate to the country level?
My argument would be that it _could_ be seen that way, and you're gambling either that it won't be or that you'd be able to convince the authorities that your usage was entirely legitimate. If your VPN connection terminates at a major corporate office in the same country, that's going to be a lot easier than if you're connecting to a public VPN service which doesn't follow local laws. It's nowhere near certain that they'd go after you but basically I'd be hesitant to recommend to anyone that they leave a public track record of using something which could be viewed as a circumvention tool because you don't always know in advance when changes in leadership mean that some previously unused law will be zealously enforced or creatively reinterpreted – we're seeing that in the United States where things like a doctor's office having a Facebook button is now a problem in that it allows a conservative prosecutor to subpoena Facebook's records for anyone in their jurisdiction looking for birth control.
> And what does it mean for a VPN client to geolocate to the country level?
Say I'm running a VPN service. Even if I'm in a different country, the UK government can come to me and say that my service will be blocked unless I buy IPs on a UK network and ensure that any client request originating from a UK network has their traffic routed through those IPs, and they'll audit that my company follows all applicable legal requirements for logging, identity validation, etc. Anyone running a legitimate business is faced with the choice of to either cooperating or not serving UK clients, and most are going to set up those dedicated ranges if they haven't already for other reasons such as geofenced content, and having a business presence means it's easy for further requirements to be attached in the future.
Everyone else is basically playing a dangerous game of getting blocked and/or attracting more attention as the percentage of VPN traffic by law-abiding users goes down. Each level of difficulty is going to mean that more people drop out – privacy benefits constantly being weighed against performance/stability – so it'll be easier for VPNs to be portrayed as law-evasion technology, especially if people try to bypass ISP-level blocks by tunneling their traffic since a judge is going to be told that you would only do that if you knew you were violating laws.
This is why I was trying to push the solutions as political: yes, not everything turns into China overnight but there's a long-running attitude in technical circles that this kind of thing can be solved with technical measures and that's only true in societies which value privacy and the rule of law. This century has more examples contradicting “The Net interprets censorship as damage and routes around it” than supporting it.
https://amp.theguardian.com/technology/2023/jan/01/labour-pl...
But this is probably just because everyone can be an expert (or even just "knowledgeable enough") in maybe one or two things, and have to rely on not-necessarily-trustworthy sources on all other topics.
This averages out to "the wind blows in the direction that the majority of the media says it blows".
And I don't know if that is a solvable problem. Not without a radically different style of government.
I really feel how apt, but also defeatist, this quote is:
"Indeed it has been said that democracy is the worst form of Government except for all those other forms that have been tried from time to time.…"
Strange they don’t see how bad this is… and what an excuse terrorism and ‘the children’ are for blanket surveillance.
9 out of 10 people seem to prefer to catch and punish a pedo than pay higher taxes to fund actual child and family support services that actually, actively protect children from violence, hunger, drug abuse, and, depressingly, all the rest of the shit that gathers at the bottom end of humanity.
Maybe not 9 out of 10, but I'd guess at least a majority, which is still a fucking sad state of affairs.
On the other hand though, that could just be because actual, active child protection doesn't enter into political discussion of internet surveillance. So that's what we need to inject into the conversation to make "then" understand that there are more angles to view this from.
The issues are complex and it is easy to miss what the implementation of an idea looks like.
So there are at least 2 positions I have seen that are anti privacy.
1.Think of the children 2.the data is needed for business reasons
Bu voting them out you send the message that this is not the case and their views will change.
Many of those parts of the law are popular across the political spectrum of MPs and with the general public.
There's stuff to deal with things like cyber bullying, hate speech and fraud on social networks - these have come about because of demands from parents and victims.
All regimes in history that tried to build utopia failed