Mac Mouse Fix | Hacker News Reader

Mac Mouse Fix

mousefix.org

197 pointsnateb2022130 comments

After testing & buying everything out there, I settled with LinearMouse [0]:

  - FOSS (a plus but don't mind paying)
  - Control of scrolling mode settings different for Horizontal vs Vertical
  - Can disable mouse acceleration (I think only CursorSense can also do this).
  - Universal back and forward buttons (replaces SensibleSideButtons)
  - Settings are different per input device, scrolling can be per app

I cannot stand any mouse acceleration. And I don't understand how people can work with it. You have to retrain the muscle memory each time you switch OS.

[0]: https://linearmouse.app/

Same with scroll acceleration. Someone honestly sat down and thought the mousewheel should work like this on Macos:

1. Turning the wheel one notch should scroll the page 1-5 pixels.

2. Turning the wheel two notches should scroll the page 10 pixels.

3. Turning the wheel three notches should scroll the page one full page.

Very clever and helpful.

Does this app work with two users logged in both using this app?

In a VNC situation? Try installing it to ~/Applications rather than /Applications.

No. Every similar app (including the here posted Mac Mouse Fix) stops working, when more than one user is logged in at the same time. So I have two user accounts on my mac, one for work one personal and when both users are logged in and the app is started from both users the scrolling stops working all together

Just FYI, re-training muscle memory is how you avoid RSI with keyboards/mice. Its important to switch up your input devices every few months and give the muscles in your hands a chance to de-calcify from the previous ergonomics.

That seems a bit dubious, can you point to any research which backs up this statement? Intuitively it seems to me like you would need to be switching input devices extremely often to avoid RSI (as in, once every few MINUTES rather than every few months).

Personally, the only real solution to fix RSI has been strength training & regular breaks during work.

I'd love to find some authoritative papers on the subject but this is based on 40 years of experience with the subject of computing and RSI, and I have never had any reason to question it because it works for me and was the best advice I ever got from a physiotherapist: change your keyboard often and you'll avoid RSI.

It works, that's all I can say about it. RSI problems go away whenever I switch keyboard/mouse setups.

I'm in the same boat as you. I regularily switch between high and low keyboards, high and low profile mice, different keyboards/mice at work/home and in addition I switch between right and left handed mouse whenever I feel like it, sometimes even several times an hour. At one point I had two mice at on my desk and grabbed the one which hand was free at the moment. Never had RSI in my 30+ years of active computing though this doesn't prove anything, maybe I'm just lucky. But still, I find it quite liberating to not depend on your must-have setup.

I've reached the point where I can basically work with everything thrown at me. I have preferences, yes, but I'm not the type of person who has to have perfect setup or else nothing gets done.

I just don't see how this prevents repetitive stress in any way.

I’m guessing the key here is in the term itself. This avoids the repetitive-ness of it.

This has not been my experience at all. For me, I had hand and wrist issues until I stuck with an ergonomic keyboard (Kinesis Advantage2). It's been like 6-7 years now and I've had no problems since.

I've used an Imak Smartglove w/ Thumb for more than a dozen years. It helps a lot. Also a Kensington Expert Mouse, a keyboard tray, and a Steelcase Leap v2.

Thank you, this was a nice find.

Same here. Finally, Sonoma will have a mouse acceleration disable setting. This should be good for battery life as tools like LinearMouse all report somewhat significant CPU usage while moving the pointer.

Because it makes no sense to design a mouse pointer with unknown range in such a way that it is linearly mapped to range on a viewport.

Users need full range of precision. No one wants to wave their arm around several times to get to the other side of the screen because someone thought it was an excellent idea to make sure every millimeter was mapped to every pixel.

And no one wants a pointer so imprecise that the slightest nudge sends you 400 points left right up or down.

There is no universally agreed upon acceleration curve. So what, do you complain that not every single vehicle has the same foot peddle resistance?

> There is no universally agreed upon acceleration curve

The gold standard (for my generation) was set by microsoft with the Mouse Wheel Optical 1.1a and IntelliMouse Explorer 3. It was 400 DPI mouse on 90-120 PPI screens.

Higher PPI on screen lead to higher DPI on the mouse. No need for Windows/MacOS/Linux to implement their own stupid acceleration charts.

> So what, do you complain that not every single vehicle has the same foot peddle resistance?

I've heard people complain about the responsiveness of their brakes for sure.

Indeed, this is an awesome tool, especially love its speed multiplier with a key so you can easily scroll within long documents! (or even medium ones)

> Universal back and forward buttons

I didn't realize people actually wanted this! I thought it was just a thoughtless default from hardware manufacturers. Every time I activate back or forward via a special mouse button (or via gestures!), it's an annoying mistake.

I would much rather have (and do have) next/prev tab buttons than browser back and forward!

I'll second LinearMouse, though! It's nice that there's a free solution for this now. Apple seems to periodically break third-party tools that fix their mouse acceleration problems.

Same here, I always disable the back/forward page functionality. I only ever use my side buttons and trackpad swipes to change between Mission Control spaces

It looks like this competes with Mos.app[0]. Honestly, I'm not sure how folks use non-magic mice without this.

If you use macOS on a desk setup, I still recommend the magic trackpad over everything else; macOS is just designed around trackpads. It might not be the best for ergonomics, but if that's your concern and you work as a programmer, you should just optimize your workflows around the keyboard instead of the mouse.

[0]: https://mos.caldis.me

Totally unrelated, but since we are talking about QOL tools on macOS, i thoroughly recommend BetterDisplay[0]

It enables reting scaling functionality on any external monitor, regardless of the resolution or the Apple compatibility.

It's great for 2k monitors that are totally hiDPI but are not deemed enough by Apple, and even for FHD secondarh displays that don't need that much display real state so you can use that real state to scale everything nicely.

[0]: https://github.com/waydabber/BetterDisplay

+1 for BetterDisplay. Truly a game changer for using MacOS.

Also nice is BetterMouse [1] (unrelated author). It's similar to the OP application in some ways. And it uniquely has a way to flip between spaces on MacOS that has very low delay, without breaking SIP. No idea how they did that.

[1] https://better-mouse.com/

>has a way to flip between spaces on MacOS that has very low delay

Lol the way it seems to do this is by simulating swiping on the trackpad really hard. I.e. create a synthetic CGEvent with the undocumented but well-known fields set to treat it as a fluid swipe event, then just put a large number in the swipe amount.

See e.g. https://github.com/thenickdude/wacom-driver-fix/blob/bdfda9a... for context.

Are you currently using a 2k monitor that is somewhat hiDPI? I'm looking for a small secondary external monitor. Any recommendations?

If you’re a mac shop I recommend the LG ultrafine 4K. It’s the only 24" 4K display so you get 186 ppi. It has thunderbolt, display port and 85w power over usb c, with a few additional ports on the back. It also integrates with macOS brightness/volume keys.

I had picked up SwitchResX a few years back for this same scenario, 4k displays that Apple didn't bless so made things blurry when scaling. Flicking the switch fixes it.

Is this better?

Caveat emptor github.com yet no longer FOSS in 2.x version.

I tried using the magic trackpad. I liked it a lot, but something about how I held my pinky and ring finger kind of "tucked in" eventually lead to pain and I had to switch.

Most of my RSI seemed to be from having my arms too far apart or something, and I fixed that by dropping my mouse and getting one of the 60% apple keyboards and sticking a trackpad onto it with this https://www.amazon.com/Twelve-South-MagicBridge-Extended-Con...

Not really responding to your comment except as a jumping off point for an ergonomics discussion

I've been using 60%/65% keyboards for almost a decade now, usually something with an HHKB layout, and yeah it's amazing how much of an improvement it is to not have to keep your mousing arm pushed so far out if you want your alpha cluster centered. The comfort improvement is significant.

60% Keyboard and Kensington Expert Mouse trackball solved a lot of tension and pain for me.

Similar for me. Tried to use it, but the rigid surface instead of a click just started causing pain for me from tapping. Just can't use it long-term.

I had the same issue with the Apple keyboard. Having my wrists turned up all day long was painful. Switched to a Logitech keyboard with a wrist rest that also laid flat instead of having the upper row elevated, and it all went away.

https://www.usboverdrive.com/index.php/information/ Can also do some useful things for mice, keyboards, and gamepads / joysticks on MacOS. I’ve had a license for many years.

Unnatural scroll wheels is the only app I need for using a regular mouse, which it looks like mos also has, but I don't need the other stuff. I use a magic trackpad in office and a mouse at home.

Ah, I see. I use a normal cheap generic gaming mouse with my Mac specifically because I hated the 'magic' mouse and trackpad. I just want a normal mouse that works properly, the same as it does on Windows and Linux machines, without automagically doing stuff I didn't want it to do.

I really despise hidden secret swipe controls and the double/triple tap thing.

I just turn those things off. I've never found a mouse with a touch surface as nice as the MM, though (just for normal scrolling).

> you should just optimize your workflows around the keyboard instead of the mouse.

The one issue I have is that out of the box, MacOS does not let you use the keyboard for all of the actions required. It doesn't even expose some actions to be able to b̶o̶n̶d̶ bind keys to, and you have to use 3rd party tools just to navigate with your keyboard.

Keyboard navigation is available through the accessibility options. What extra things do the 3rd party tools provide?

Move a window to another workspace is the first that springs to mind.

Control+Left/Right will move workspaces but you can't move windows between them.

Interesting - I'm a macOS power user (at least I would think so, having used it since 2003). Not really using my mouse all that much. Mostly I use keyboard shortcuts when possible. I don't really like trackpads and mice too much, and macOS is still very powerful. What do you need the trackpad so much for?

> you should just optimize your workflows around the keyboard instead of the mouse.

Looks like you didnt read it to the end ;)

Apologies, I missed that

Somehow for me a mouse gives me instant finger pain, where trackpads I never have issues.

> you should just optimize your workflows around the keyboard instead of the mouse.

That's quite patronising. Tools should grow around the user, not the other way around.

Trackpad is just wrong for text based applications. For instance, you can't precisely select large amounts of text and navigation, placing the cursor precisely is just a nightmare.

A pro tip for precisely selecting text on a trackpad: you can click in one place, then scroll or move the cursor freely, then shift-click somewhere else. This works in applications with a caret like a text editor, but also in non-editable text in most applications.

That most of the time doesn't work, because it somehow loses where was the beginning of your selection and you also don't have any visual feedback. This also doesn't work on non-editable text.

It is really better to just use mouse.

> Honestly, I'm not sure how folks use non-magic mice without this.

I use a non-magic mouse, it seems fine to me.

I remember in the past there was this problem with scroll direction being the inverse of what I expected and I had to use some app to change it just for my mouse and not the trackpad, but with my current setup the mouse behaves as I would expect, not sure if it's due to this mouse's firmware or a change in MacOS or something, I am curious what advantages these apps offer since I seem to be the target audience?

I don't really see the point in these gestures to switch spaces etc., and scrolling / mouse movement seems fine to me, what am I missing?

Edit: I just realized, my mouse works as expected because I have it set to inverted in BetterTouchTool, which I originally installed for other reasons, so I suppose I do see the point in these Apps

It looks cool, but there is no screenshot or video of the settings you can configure.

The videos show only the effects (scrolling, etc) and not how you can use your mouse or set it up to do it.

Yeah, my thoughts exactly. How does this work? What's it like to use this? Seems like one of the most important possible questions to answer, but the website says nothing.

Alas, this is my experience with a lot of product websites. There’s lots of content but rarely anything useful.

Yup! Came to say the same thing. Seems to fix a problem I have, but I have no clue how it does it, and that doesn't pass the threshold for me to install it

The Github repo[0] is listed. Could open an issue for describing how it works.

[0] https://github.com/noah-nuebling/mac-mouse-fix

I just installed it, here's what I can set: bindings for the middle mouse button (click/hold/double click/click and drag), for clicking mouse buttons 4 and 5, smooth scrolling on/off, scroll speed, and (the reason I installed it): you can invert the scrolling direction just for the mouse.

The main thing it fixes for me is that I can now use a regular Logitech mouse and scroll just like on Linux and Windows. Before it scrolled too slow (on pixel level) and even when scrolling fast it went slow (no matter the settings on Mac OS). If I let the Logi MX Anywhere 3 wheel roll freely it scrolled too fast. This tool fixed the annoying scrolling issues I had.

This seems to be the main feature it does.

The other is that you can reprogram what the middle button (the scroll wheel click) does.

Same with botton 4 and 5 (default back and forth between pages).

This website really struggles to define the problem, it goes straight into the solution.

If I have a Magic Mouse do I need this?

No probably not. I’ve been using this app for years, it lets me program the extra buttons on my Logitech mouse to switch spaces or open Mission Control and such, among other things

Definitely not. This is intended for those "gaming" PC mice with extra buttons. I tried it with mine (I normally use a magic trackpad but sometimes, rarely, I need a real mouse) and it works really nice. The only thing I'm missing is horizontal scrolling but I have no idea how to fit it in there.

edit: it can scroll horizontally if you hold shift while scrolling

That is just normally how it works, at least in a browser, has nothing to do with this app.

No, it's for any mouse with a middle button. Or if you happen to use both the touchpad and a mouse, like maybe on a Macbook, in which case you can actually set the scrolling direction for trackpad and mouse separately - which is otherwise not possible, really annoying.

This tool exists to make scrolling on other mouse devices feel more like it does on the Magic Mouse. Since you already have that, you don't need the tool.

> Is Mac Mouse Fix compatible with the Apple Magic Mouse?

> Mac Mouse Fix makes your third party mouse better! But it has no effect on Apple's Magic Mouse.

They're probably scared to write this but Apple cripples every mouse other than "Magic Mouse" to make "Magic Mouse" seem good despite being a piece of shit. This uncripples other mice.

I use SensibleSideButtons for all my mouse customization needs (which aren't much) https://sensible-side-buttons.archagon.net

yeah same, this is a nice one to simply get the back button on the mouse to actually go back...

Thanks for this. I’ve been using this Logitech mouse since forever and the side buttons doesn’t have any functionality

I use Mac Mouse Fix to assign the buttons on my Logitech mouse but I’ll definitely look into this too

Looks like it's Open Source too (GPL2): https://github.com/archagon/sensible-side-buttons

Hasn't had a commit in 6 years though. :/

It doesn't need a commit. It just works.

Which is surprising because it was worked across five or so releases of MacOS now.

Doesn’t say what it actually does for what kinds of mice, at least from a quick scroll.

I have been using BetterTouchTool for years to program the extra buttons on my Logitech mice and add a three finger tip-tap tab switching gesture to the trackpad. Works beautifully.

The page doesn't describe how you do any of the actions with a mouse. It badly needs some text just explaining exactly what it provides and how.

Yea, that was my first thought as well...

I used this software for a long time, and it is targeted at people using a regular mouse but still want to have a trackpad ish experience (and making mac more mouse friendly). Things that I used day to day: smooth scrolling, horizontal scrolling, and middle click enhancements. It is free and open source.

Thanks for the clear description! You should write the copy for the website, which explains none of this (at least not on the front page).

I use steerMouse for this. I think the license was $8 and its lifetime for multiple machines, money well spent.

And it supports lots of stuff and just seamlessly works in the background. And it has neat detailed options for custom shortcuts on any buttons and scrolling tweaking. It helped me a lot with many mice setups along the years.

New license is 19.99$ nowadays though. Still worth it imo!

https://plentycom.jp/en/steermouse/

I'm surprised not to see more people use my setup, mouse in primary hand, Magic Trackpad along the opposite side of the keyboard for the other.

It's mostly to enable gestures and padding / swiping in macOS, but its also pretty nice getting to pan with one hand and use the pointer with the other.

I do this and much more using Logitech's software + LinearMouse + BetterTouchTools + Mos (optional).

I read the website but can’t tell — does it support pinch to zoom? Would make life easier when using Figma - I currently have to take my hand off of my mouse and put it on my laptop, which is on a stand :-/

I've started using this and also tried LinearMouse and LogiOptions. Using two Macs interchangeably with two different Logitech mice, I somehow fail to get a consistent experience across all setups. Scrolling behavior also 'feels' different depending on the application browser vs code editor, etc.)

And then there's some weird scroll wheel wobble on my MX Master 3, which gets interpreted differently depending on what software I use and the occasional disconnect even if the receiver is right next to the mouse...

Why is this so hard? :)

It's so crazy that macOS can't get mouse to work properly. Like you have to install dedicated apps for a scroll wheel so they reverse direction of scrolling to match the trackpad and still you cannot get to control the scrolling properly. Then these apps tend to stop working randomly or reverse direction and you have to turn it off then randomly direction reverses again etc.

Mouse is the most frustrating experience on Macs. It's bizarre.

This is the opposite of what I want. Is there a fix for the defectively-large trackpad on Mac laptops, which causes spurious right-clicks, deselections, and cursor jumps while you're typing?

The fix would be to deactivate the outer inch or so of the trackpad.

I can only imagine the overly-complicated and ultimately unreliable touch-rejection logic Apple has ladled onto this thing, to work around a problem they created.

Kinda unrelated, but has anyone had trouble with using usb wireless mice with the M1 macbooks?

I able to use it on my other intel MacBook without issues…

What do you mean by wireless usb?

I'd assume they mean the mice that connect to the PC via Bluetooth, but you have to connect a separate (tiny) USB to the PC first in order for the two to connect.

I recently diagnosed a very weird problem on my M32 MacBook Pro 13" where the _HDMI_ cable I was using caused my Logitech mouse (with 2.4GHz dongle) to stutter and disconnect/reconnect. Nothing to do with the display, my adapter/dongle, other peripherals, or other running apps. Still don't know _why_ that HDMI caused those issues, because the display was fine, but... MacOS is just sometimes obtusely weird!

MacOS might occasionally be weird, but that definitely sounds like some kind of electrical issue, probably nothing to do with the OS.

Possibly... But I don't understand why that particular HDMI cable was causing issues with my USB devices -- with no visual artifacts or latency or other issues being evident on my screen.

But you're right -- I was possibly too quick to snark about MacOS when the real culprit is more likely the cheap random HDMI cable I used. :)

Most likely the HDMI cable has significant signal leakage (poor or missing shielding), and the signal has some component (or harmonic) in the same spectrum as your dongle.

Similar thing happened to me with my Apple TV 4K. When I was watching it, Bluetooth devices in the vicinity (including its remote!) became choppy and unreliable. Turned out to be the fault of the HDMI cable! Replaced it and the problems all disappeared.

If you want something really flexible for HID customizations on MacOS, I would recommend ControllerMate. Graphical language that takes in and generates USB HID events.

(I've been wanting the equivalent for Windows or Linux)

[1] https://www.orderedbytes.com/controllermate/

All I really want is the ability to have inverted scrolling on the track pad and have normal scrolling when I use a mouse wheel. For some reason MacOS doesn't support doing these even though it supports things like remapping certain keys on USB keyboards only.

Just tried this out and agree it's made my mouse more usable - thanks!

I particularly like the click and drag for Mission Control & Spaces.

A couple of things I'd love to see: 1. When middle click is set to click there is a noticeable delay. 2. Icon in menu bar

Based on what I see on the website, I think some (if not all) of them can be done via custom key/gesture settings that supported by your mouse manufacturers (e.g. Logitech Options).

Mos + MX Master 3 has been everything I need. It takes some fiddling between Mos and Logi Options to get the scroll feeling good, but you can get there.

I use SmoothScroll for hassle-free scrolling with my non-Apple mouse, works just fine.

I tried most apps suggested in the comments, and IMO nothing beats the scrolling of SmoothScroll!

I used to use "sensible sidebuttons", but this is way better. Thanks!

Does it support per-device settings?

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