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Comment by ja27 | Hacker News Reader

Generally good advice. Play-testing with young kids is a big help.

I also don't like an app that has the kid shake the iPad (or iPhone) a lot.

I'm torn on the "Don't trick my kids into buying stuff" one. I've seen a lot of crappy apps (and even well-built Smurfy-Smurf ones) that are just funnels to in-app purchases. But I've also seen parents leave outraged reviews because a developer dares to have in-app purchases for additional content in his free app. Or they turn their nose up at paying $1.99 for an iPad app. The world doesn't owe you free high-quality kids' apps. Go ahead and funnel your kid's allowance into iTunes credit now and use it to get them to clean their room.

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You don't have kids, do you? Small kids don't really understand money. When a parent downloads a "free" game, they expect it to be free. When their kid starts crying because they can't do anything without buying something in app, it pisses the parent off. Or, once burned, you have this scenario:

"Can I have this game, daddy? It says free!"

"No, honey, it costs money".

"But then why does it say free?"

"Because they're telling lies to you to try to get you to buy it."

You can't really avoid that conversation.

If you want to charge me for a kid's app - PLEASE do it up front. I've spent more money buying my kids apps than I have buying myself apps. It's not the money - it's the deception that game makers try to push on my small children. I can do without that.

*edit - the first sentence reads a lot snarkier than I intended. I should have left that out.

I've had that conversation. I'm so glad my youngest is 8 now. Yes, I wish all the apps that make their money from free + in-app purchases would just give me an option to buy the whole thing for a one-time price.

I have a 3 and 4 year old, just for disclosure. Some games are free, limited demos. And the in-app purchase is for the full game. I like this mechanism, trying before I buy. Don't punish developers for being good people; just because a kid app has in-app purchase, doesn't necessarily mean it's a scummy attempt to trick kids into spending their parents money.

Question for IPhone/IPad users who buy apps for kids.

I plan to gift a friend's son an Apple device of some kind and some games for his upcoming birthday, and I don't want him either bankrupting his dad (who will be registered as the owner of the device, and whose credit card details will be available to Apple/ITunes post registration (I think!) ) by accidentally buying stuff, or having to interrupt his games to dismiss in app purchases and so on.

Is there a way to disable kids purchasing stuff accidentally?

Is there a way of finding out which apps have in game purchases and which don't, without actually trying them out?

I am willing to pay for good apps and don't expect free apps, but once I pay, I want the kid to have an ad free experience.

I own no Apple Kit of any kind and have no experience buying stuff from the App Store. All help appreciated. Thanks in advance.

Edit: Thanks for all the great replies, much appreciated.

Use gift cards instead of registering a credit card. It's much easier to control the spend.

I totally agree with 'ad-free experience'; if I can't tolerate adverts in apps then I wouldn't let children see them where they will distract from the app itself.

This is what we do for our son. From what I can remember it isn't obvious that you can set up an iTunes account without a credit card - we had to go into iTunes (on a PC) after-the-fact to remove the CC info.

Most apps that have in-app purchasing list "Top In-App Purchases" on the left-hand sidebar on the App Store listing.

If you go into Settings > General > Restrictions, you can set restrictions on the use.

* You can set a different PIN passcode

Optional restrictions available:

* installing and deleting apps

* set age limits on apps

* restrict in-app purchases

You need to enter your Apple ID to make purchases but it's worth deciding on whether to give a 15 minute window for purchases without re-authentication or to require immediate re-authentication.

If the kids know the Apple ID passwords and passcode, none of that will provide much protection.

In Settings, under General, there are Restrictions that you can place on the device, including disabling In-App Purchase. Every app has their In-App Purchases listed in the store, so you can see which ones have them before buying.

More info on restrictions: https://support.apple.com/kb/HT4213

There are indicators that apps have in-app purchases but most kids and parents don't notice them.

In-app purchases require you to enter your iTunes account password so it's generally hard to accidentally buy something. The problem is that once you enter the password to make a purchase (even of a free app), you stay logged in for a while (15 minutes?). A lot of parents have been burned by downloading a free app (requiring a login), then handing their phone to their kid to entertain them for a few minutes. The kid then racks up a few in-app purchases before the login session times out. Quite a few parents learn that lesson when their kid buys a $1.99 add-on, but the really scummy apps have $99 purchases.

I generally wouldn't worry about it. If the device is for a kid, they'll probably be begging for iTunes gift cards and will learn to budget their purchases. The only real problem is when mom or dad have their iTunes account tied to their credit / debit card and don't pay attention.

I think any and all ads for kids apps should be in the Apple App Store or in the Android Market where they belong. I have no problem with selling apps for kids, but don't make it easy or even possible for them to buy one in your free app.

Or they turn their nose up at paying $1.99 for an iPad app

I think that's out of context to even bring up. The complaint is scummy in-app purchases and they are a scourge mostly meant to exploit the easy clicking of kids with the default "no barrier" purchase mechanism. I've uninstalled and forever purged several apps for exactly this monetizing strategy. I have zero problem or hesitation paying up upfront, honest price for an app.

  >mostly meant to exploit the easy clicking of kids with the default "no barrier" purchase mechanism.

How do you define a "scummy in-app purchase that's a scourge meant to exploit kids" from a non-scummy in app purchase?

If it's designed for young kids, and the in-app purchase is reachable in 1 or 2 taps, it is scummy.

If there's a $1.99 "20 additional game levels" after you finish the first 20, that's not scummy. If there's a $99 in-app purchase (Basket of Smurfberries), that's scummy.

Sadly, that is just people responding to the market conditions. Most people want things near to free, so the initial price must be low or else you'll get ignored. Then, you need some whales to actually generate revenue. Surely there is some CEO you'll happily pay $99 bucks to shut his kids up.

Market conditions can be constrained by regulations such as Apple's prohibition against pornography. Eighteenth century USA excused slavery as the price of doing business before government regulations altered those market conditions. Prior to such changes the practice was no less scummy. In-App kid-chiseling falls squarely in the category of scummy.

Your entire post reads as a cheap appeal to emotion, rather than a balanced view of app purchase methods on mobile devices.

Let's turn this around for a second. Why are parents letting children use their very expensive and unlimited purchasing power mobile devices without supervision? If the kids have their own phones, why are they linked to their parent's account for purchases, instead of using the (very cool) allowance feature that is built into the store?

There are a number of solutions to this problem, but arbitrarily deciding how many clicks away a purchase has to be or somesuch is near the bottom of the list.

If you were capable of actually reading my post and not what you wanted to read into it, you would see that I was referring to chiseling children out of large sums re the post I was answering. Selling a child $99 worth of cartoon pony feed is mere cretinous larceny. This type of behavior actually happens. This is what we are condemning. I was not criticizing in-app up-selling, which I presume you mean to defend, but maybe I presume too much. Perhaps you are in the cretin camp.

  >Selling a child $99 worth of cartoon pony feed is mere cretinous larceny

Who's to say the person using the app isn't an adult? See for example Farmville, or Smurfland (whatever that goofy app is called). Are you seriously suggesting that the majority of purchases made there were from kids who don't know any better?

I find it very funny that you chose cartoon ponies as your example, when the internet at large currently has an obsession with the My Little Pony franchise. All ages, mind, not just "children".

I am discussing the tendency of some developers of apps for children to deliberately swindle their naive audience. You are, by account of your latest post, talking to hear your own head rattle. Good day.

> the default "no barrier" purchase mechanism

Ugh. This, combined with the x-minute no-password-required feature have contributed to more than one horror story I've personally heard.

This is why I disable IAP on my iPhone. I haven't seen the IAP experience either, so I don't even know if it takes you to the App Store to give you a chance to back out.

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