The world’s largest wind turbine has been switched on
iflscience.com
iflscience.com
Hard Watt Life
One thing that some people don’t consider is that the direction the turbine faces is also controllable and therefore used for braking. A lot of people think the turbine is blown by the wind to face the correct direction, but there is a separate wind direction sensor and a motor to turn the turbine.
The friction brake could be applied at speed, but that was for emergencies.
Never ever underestimate what the wind can do. Wind turbines will always have some latent risk (as do most other activities and constructs). For every design there is a pathological set of circumstances that should never happen. But once in a long while it does. What should surprise you is that so few of these accidents happen that they are news.
Not sure how that works for a wind turbine
You can't escape the fact that the blades are a ton of surface area on a long lever... and if the winds are both forceful and directionally chaotic, there isn't really a "no power position" to be found.
Going back to the sailboat metaphor, it's the conditions where you douse the sails entirely. At most flying a little storm jib. Pointing upwind is just to enable doing so.
Though they are built in rural areas and at sea so even in the worst case disaster (manufacturing flaw, not wind) nobody is hurt.
But, AFAIK, windmills wre immobilized when the wind gets too strong, in order to protect them. If the tech allows it, they can also be made to catch less window. Some Dutch wind mills could be rotated, and the cloth covering the arms could cover less surface. Modern windmills adapt their position automatically. Look at [0] and search for "Ten Have / Beckers".
The choice, if between coal-fired plants and windmills should be pretty obvious to birds. Sure we may not see them getting splashed to bits with coal-fired plants but they are silently getting ill/dying over time.
I'm not anti-nuclear, but the risk profile is SO different from wind.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Price%E2%80%93Anderson_Nuclear...
It’s a necessity, and extremely logical and reasonable.
They’re insured the exact same way the banks are.
As is the power generation profile. Wind/solar/tidal are important to develop, and the risk profile should include whatever peaker or storage backs up the variability in generation.
https://www.fws.gov/library/collections/threats-birds
234,012 - Collisions: Land-based wind turbines
6,600,000 - Collisions: Communication towers
72,000,000 - Pesticides & other poisons
214,500,000 - Collision: Vehicles
599,000,000 - Collision: Glass skyscrapers
2,400,000,000 - Predation by cats
[Unknown] - Habitat loss and climate change
These are just some estimates of some admittedly very difficult to capture data, but the orders of magnitude differences are revealing nonetheless.
[1] https://www.doll.eu/de/produkte/schwertransport/nachlaeufer-...
[2] https://www.wiwo.de/technologie/wirtschaft-von-oben/wirtscha...
So near-site in practice means, near-harbor.
Possibly you can have an agile vessel doing the last stretch so that you can change that to ~near-sea.
The base is segments (shaped like calamari rings), which are big but usually can be transported by road, but the big ones probably can't pass under bridges.
Afaik, they are built in dedicated factories but usually on the same continent (at least!) as where they are going to get installed.
... but why calamari rings specifically?
Here are some images to give you an idea of the size of large wind turbines https://growsverige.se/2023/02/11/storleken-svindlar-pa-nya-...
I think you meant per minute.
Per second would mean that the rotor tips are travelling faster than SR-71.
So yes, faster means more power. Torque is limited by the generator and how much power is "being pulled" from it. (which is a bad description but there you go)
In other words, wind pushing the middle of the blade could accelerate the tip, even if the tip only produces drag.
General Electric and Vestas both have 14 megawatt wind turbine prototypes in operation. This seems to be a prototype deployed in a large installation. It's not in the catalog yet.[2] Mingyang has been delivering some 12 megawatt units. Two years ago they announced a similar model with slightly shorter blades.[3]
[1] http://www.myse.com.cn/en/
https://www.rechargenews.com/wind/one-day-one-turbine-359mwh...
At 123m blade length, this should be maybe 1 MW more. Looks like the original article, which claims power for 36,000 "homes", is using roughly 1 home = 0.5kW. In the US it's more like 1 home = 2kW.
1. https://www.statista.com/statistics/570678/biggest-wind-turb...
[1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Growian
EDIT: I always remembered GROWIAN as a single blade system, but apparently that was its successor Monopteros, which only ever reached the prototype stage.
> Some lessons were however learned from conceptional mistakes made in its construction, e.g., the futility of trying to reach profitable installation sizes without taking intermediate steps
> The point of view that multi-MW-yield wind turbines were technically and commercially infeasible gained some currency after the failure of the project, but was eventually superseded by technical progress. Beginning with the late 2000s, twenty-five years after Growian was decommissioned, installations with identical dimensions and yield (100 m rotor diameter, 3 MW net yield) were being produced in large numbers, a class of turbines that has continued to dominate the market and to push forward the mean net yield of newly installed turbines.
> The partners as well as the BMFT also had political motives connected with the project. Günther Klätte, management board member of RWE, stated during a general business meeting: "We require Growian [in the general sense of large wind turbines] as a proof of failure of concept", and he noted that "the Growian is a kind of pedagogical tool to convert the anti-nuclear energy crowd to the true faith".[6] A similar statement regarding the incurred financial burdens was reported of Minister of Finance and former Minister of Research Hans Matthöfer: "We know it won't do anything for us. But we do it to demonstrate to the wind energy advocates that it doesn't work."[6] After the Green Party had derided the installation as the electricity provider's "fig leaf" on the occasion of groundbreaking in May 1981, the RWE took internal measures to make sure that publicly a position of open-mindedness towards alternative energy production was emphasized while public interest in wind energy was allayed.
What is the point of adding a time component in there? They always say weird things like this that make me double take. "Wait... does one revolution power 36,000 homes for a YEAR???" What's really annoying is that they aren't even wrong, just annoying.
I don't understand it and probably never will. I think at this time readers in much of english-speaking world expect this type of errors and will mind the "correct" language, e.g. simply watts when talking about power.
I think there is a joke somewhere here about all power stations stop working exactly after one year of coming online because of people unable to imagine amount of fuel per unit of time.
So just controlling the pitch (presumably of a more average turbine) uses the (peak) power of heating a house in Sweden. Noted that the duty cycle is low, but still.
[1] https://www.keba.com/download/x/18628e52a3/pitchone-datashee...
[2] https://www.nidec-industrial.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/05/...
The big trouble spot is the gearbox and its bearings.[1] These big turbines are advertised as "semi direct drive" turbines, which means they only have one stage of geared speed step-up. Large wind turbines are very slow compared to desirable generator RPMs, and the bigger the turbine, the lower the RPMs.
Bearing trouble is currently the big limitation on turbine life. Not many large wind turbine drivetrains are reaching the 25 year design life. Huge bearings and gears with off-axis loads have problems not seen in other applications. As the wind changes, stresses appear from odd angles. This causes minor bearing damage, which increases wear, which eventually causes major damage.
A new research result: [2][3] Argonne National Lab has been able to reproduce this problem in a benchtop setup. The metallurgy/lubrication problem is still not fully understood, and it's getting considerable attention.
Stuff like this is the difference between a prototype and a long-lived production product.
[1] https://www.stle.org/files/TLTArchives/2020/08_August/Featur...
[2] https://www.energy.gov/eere/wind/articles/zeroing-no-1-cause...
[3] https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S09215...
(Picture two flat-topped letter 'A's, one behind the other, with a crossbar going from the top of the front one to the top of the back one. The blades spin around this crossbar, an axle. The generator can be at one end of this axle, or in the blade hub. The whole structure is floating, moored at one corner, and can rotate to keep the blades facing into the wind as required.)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bell_Rock_Lighthouse#Construct...
When they were first installed there was local opposition, but now no one cares about them at all. They don't ruin the horizon, they aren't an eyesore, and compared to office blocks they don't seem to be killing a large number of birds or causing any other issues with wildlife.
They want to build more, but the blockage seems to be the large increases in costs of materials and labour since the project was costed pre-COVID (likely just a play for some govt subsidies?) and also concerns about pylons to carry the power generated. I'm personally not so worried about the pylons esp given the cost of buried cabling.
Only putting them in the sea is a big limitation in England, though. It’s not easy to defeat the remaining feudal lords who oppose land ones.
@Twosdai - I was talking about space generators, there is no air. So how get spin, from temperature diffs that can turn a turbine/generator?
The first 14MW was installed quite a few years ago (and it might have been upgraded to 15MW), so this is just a small-ish increase in max size. The big news, foe at least, is that it is Chinese. Siemens, Vestas and GE have some serious competition now it seems
What amazing machines!
Does this imply that a turbine only lasts 1 year?
I assume that this turbine should be able to supply those 36,000 households for an arbitrary amount of time, not just one year.
https://www.gwec.net/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/Netherlands_...
This means that a windmill constructed with 3x the building material (3x blade diameter and 3x taller) will generate over 9x the power.
What happens after one year? Do they collapse into the ocean and then they have to build a new one?
How do bird deaths from wind turbines compare to other manmade objects?
Why are these questions always in wind turbine posts before anything els?
How does eating meat factor into this?
Because it's better to worry about it and try to mitigate at the beginning, than wait until there is too much inertia, sunken costs, vested interests and institutional pushback. Some things become too hard to fix if you start wrong.
7 times as many are killed by cell towers, 80x as many by cars, and up to 1000x as many by cats. Maybe they should put cat ears on turbines and people would be fine with them.
[0] https://www.energymonitor.ai/tech/renewables/weekly-data-how...
They are not.
And stop destroying their habitat, and changing the climate which is destroying their migratory air currents and on-route stop-overs.
TLDR: there are plenty of direct and indirect things that cause a _lot_ more bird deaths. Don't let perfect get in the way of good.
If each of these turbines is rated at 16MW, we would need about 4.3 million of them.
Is there enough space?
Let's assume turbines should be spaced 10 rotor diameters apart[2]. A turbine of this size (246m diameter) would need to have about 2.5 * 2.5=6.25km^2 of dedicated space. So we will need about 27 million square kilometers of open sea space.
Coincidentally, that's the same as the total area of continental shelf in the whole world.[3]
Continental shelf depth is up to 200m.[4]
The deepest wind turbines today are in depths of 59m.[5]
What should we conclude? As long as we figure out a way of building turbines in deeper water, or perhaps floating turbines, and a way of manufacturing the required materials (hopefully without recourse to fossil fuels), the project seems just about plausible. But it would be a truly planet-scale endeavour.
[0] https://ourworldindata.org/energy-production-consumption
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capacity_factor#Wind_farm
[2] https://ideasmedioambientales.com/wind-turbine-spacing/
[3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continental_shelf
[4] https://www.britannica.com/science/continental-shelf
[5] https://www.sse.com/news-and-views/2023/04/world-s-deepest-o...*
It does illustrate the specific challenge of this energy transition. If a given energy technology isn’t being mass-produced in factories, it’s basically irrelevant given the scale of what we need to do.
I think they should be, but even if they aren’t, there still is the observation that a kWh of electricity often can produce more of what we really want (light, motion, compute power) than a kWh of oil (about the only thing we can efficiently convert that into is heat)
For example, Google tells me
- petrol is about 12 kWh/kg,
- the modern fiat 500 has a 47l gas tank,
- Tesla sells cars with 50kwh batteries.
Yet, that Fiat doesn’t have ten times the rang of the larger Tesla.
USA setting off nukes and Britain fire bombing Dresden are examples of energy use which is wasteful and polluting. There are always exceptions to one broad indicator, in this example energy usage.
Technology improvement typically brings more efficient use of resources and less pollution. Energy consumption, as one indicator, tracks with increased GDP and increased standard of living.
> It would be wrong to assume that rich countries have only achieved this by offshoring manufacturing overseas – which would simply mean that other countries are consuming this energy on their behalf. Consumption-based energy use – which adjusts for the energy used to produce the goods we import and export – has also plateaued or fallen in many countries. We see this clearly in the chart for Sweden.
What people need to realize is that if we go to renewable, electric energy, in most cases this will also involve efficiency improvements. Many fossil fuel based processes are horribly inefficient, with electricity you can often avoid doing things like "80% of our energy goes into heating up the air around whatever we're doing".
That said: Yes, we'll need a lot of wind turbines.
I know that in reality you couldn’t just put them all in one place.
Solar shouldn't have this problem, instead: the amount of power we receive from the sun is ridiculously larger than what we can ever thing to consume.
I'm not disagreeing with your math, but it doesn't need to be offshore only. Currently 93% of wind power is on land, and 7% is offshore[1].
In the United States, it's much more extreme. Literally 99.99% of turbines are on land and 0.01% are offshore[2].
Offshore is growing faster than onshore, though.
---
[1] See "Technology deployment" section here: https://www.iea.org/energy-system/renewables/wind
[2] See this map: https://eerscmap.usgs.gov/uswtdb/viewer/ . It shows 72,731 wind turbines, 7 of which are offshore. Also see this Wikipedia article: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_offshore_wind_farms_in...
In Texas we have numerous wind farms. One of my relatives came home to find a crew at work on the neighboring property building a pad for a turbine. They had received no notice that a wind farm was to be constructed in the area and none about opportunities to object to turbine placement and as a result, while they were trying to determine who to contact about this, brand new turbines were installed on the neighboring property with the nearest one being less than 1500 feet from their home. It appears that they are now stuck with the constant whoosh-whoosh-whoosh of the blades as they rotate and an electric hum, 24 hours a day and their peaceful home now has an inescapable background noise pattern.
I love wind power, I have some solar power installed on my own property and will be upgrading that. I think though that the ability to enjoy peace and quiet in your own home should not be compromised by a private utility even if they are providing clean power for public consumption.
It would be better if we could replace some older turbines with newer units like this high-capacity turbine in the article. Perhaps with larger, more pwoerful turbines we would need fewer to be installed to be able to meet our state's power consumption needs. New wind power installations should be mandated to use best-available technology so that we end up with durable, reliable, quiet power generation with a minimal footprint.
As time passes and we are able to make the switch from fossil fuel sources to renewable sources we will find ourselves with a requirement that we produce as much power as possible in the smallest footprint. There will always be people who don't want a turbine near their house. That's a simple fact. One of the original arguments against wind installations in California was the argument that it spoiled the view since no one wanted to see a bunch of turbines along a scenic ridge, they preferred the unmolested vistas of their childhood. Later, they focused on noise issues, which are valid concerns, and many states worked with operators and other stakeholders to design a set of guidelines or restrictions on minimal offsets from habitations.
Texas is not one of those states and so wind turbines of any size can be installed within the wind farms without taking into consideration existing habitations. Most operators solicit public input though in the case I mentioned, there is no record of any notice to affected people that the wind farm might have an impact on their use of their property or quality of life.
It is a lot like the problems we had here during the Barnett Shale boom about 15 years ago where operators bought mineral rights all over North Texas and began drilling for natural gas and then fracking those wells so they would be economical to produce. There were no restrictions in most cities and communities on offsets to housing, schools, businesses, etc and so, as the industry has done so many times in the past, they took advantage of that situation and began drilling knowing that they could deal with those problems later.
Over a course of years some communities passed regulations limiting drilling locations and other parts of the operation in a bid to prevent drilling wells just over a fence and the building of compressor stations in neighborhoods.
I think if you had a compressor station, even one with all the noise attenuating walls around it, near your own house you would also keep a wary eye on any attempts to bring other noise sources into your area that will interfere with your quiet enjoyment of your private property. The low frequency rumble from the compressor engines is not attenuated by the puffy walls and travels for large distances like ground roll on a seismic record. I am a geophysicist and for me, when the compressor starts up it is like feeling the initial part of an upsweep from a vibrator except that the upsweep never makes it to the higher frequencies. It's just a low frequency rumble that doesn't stop until the compressor engines stop.
My mind doesn't get stuck on actualities, I look at possibilities, probabilities, and consequences and for that reason I can see that something like a huge turbine installed today in an offshore generation configuration could easily be employed later as a component of an onshore generation farm.
I know that puff piece article didn't cover any of that ground since it was not designed to tell any part of that story.
Take out the transformer station at, or transmissions line from, the wind farm.
Transformers less so, I suppose. I'd imagine those could be hardened. Is there a reason we couldn't place them underground?
I hope that conflict between Taiwan and China never happens. I enjoy reading about new technologies coming into production and if these nations go to war, a lot of this productive capacity will shift to production of tools for war instead of tools useful for solving problems that we have brought on ourselves over generations.
Regardless of whether the enemy has lots more missiles, they still have a finite number of them. Those missiles cost money. War is as economic as it is kinetic.
Using those missiles to disable power generation means they can't be used on other targets. Overuse of ammunition eats into stockpiles or forces early resupply, which takes time.
Time matters in war.
It's a lot like WWII where Allied aerial bombardment campaigns tried to target oil refining, ball bearing production, railroads and critical transportation infrastructure like bridges, factories where tanks, planes, and other vehicles were manufactured, and rocket launching facilities. Those targets, if you can keep hitting them so that they never come back to full capacity will give a tangible advantage.
That and industrial manufacturing (which China has motivation to keep intact), but even industrial targets are contingent upon an electrical supply.
The military can run off fossil fuel generators for only so long.
Issue in TW conflict limited to TW and PRC is scale of asymnetry too large and growing - TW unable to stockpile enough survivable fire power to meaningfully degrade PRC energy production let alone long term, especially massive PRC MIC located inland. PRCs tangible advantage is her industrial base too large to be disrupted at scale and for long. For reference medium term nuclear as % of energy mix will go from 5% to 10% (2035) which is enough to ration around during war. Long term 2050+ still "only" 20-25%. Consider scale of PRC's current distributed renewable rollout efforts is enough to power all residential use this year and likely substantial % of industrial use in coming years. Hence PRC coastal nuclear still most enticing targets even if that's warcrime territory (queue blowing up 3 gorges meme). Ultimately if TW tried to hit PRC nuclear they better commit to massive preemptive strike on reactors with their entire inventory since substations/transformers (which PRC makes indigenously) can be rapidly replaced. There's no opportunity for TW to reevaluate since PRC has stockpiles to disrupt TW completely and prevent followup strikes in retaliation and TW can't be meaningfully resupplied let alone reconstruct under motivated PRC attack. And if PRC preempts, TW options even more limited. It's a matter of who can rebuild infra and out attrite, which overwhelmingly favours PRC. WW2 strategic bombing worked for US because adversaries couldnt disrupt CONUS logistics. Even that is increasingly challenged if US commits to total war with PRC in TW scenario since PRC is boostering global strike capabilities which will hopefully limit scope of war due to mutual homefront vunerability (between PRC and US at least).
(in short, as I understand it: lots of cheapass drones each carrying a small rock, insignificant by itself, converging on the target from every direction, only coming together as a lethal weapon at the very last minute)