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I know. This is really stunning but true. CBP officers have the right to review the admissibility of TN applicants any time even if they have a TN approval notice. But there's a solution of sorts. Please email me separately because this will be very case-specific advice.

Also on TN status with a Computer Science degree. It appears to be luck-of-the-draw with the CBP officers. I also have two Software Engineering modules and my program was under the Faculty of Engineer which helps.

I initially applied for L1B at Peace Bridge and was told that I needed to show the company I worked for was profitable (not true).

We drove to Detroit-Windsor from Fort Erie as they told us there were no appointments until three weeks out (you don’t actually need an appointment I found out later).

In Detroit I was denied my L1B because “the last year you worked abroad cannot count towards your acquisition of specialized knowledge” (also false).

My opinion of CBP is you need to get the right one or have your lawyer on speed-dial so they can argue with the officer.

Getting status at the border used to be seen as a pro for Canadians but more and more I’m seeing it as a con.

Much like the other commenter, I learned to never ever do any of this stuff (ordinary travel or renewals) via land crossings. You can have a major trajectory change to your life on the whims of a border guard who is just having a bad day even if all of your ducks are lined up and perfectly documented by a large multinational. Bend over backwards to avoid land crossings until you can secure yourself a greencard.

It doesn't really matter which crossing, IME, you may always encounter a power-tripping officer, and officers at each kind of entry port have the same power. I've been waved through no questions asked at land crossings, pulled into secondary and interviewed by 6 officers in pairs of 2 at an air crossing - and vice versa. Ultimately, admission is at the discretion of the officers unless you're a citizen. Even a green card holder can be denied re-entry on the basis that they 'abandoned their residency.'

Understood -- the big multinational I was working for employed an immigration law firm that tracked many such crossings, and they practically begged me not to try crossing by land based on their statistics (which suggested a higher probability of trouble in land crossings). I joined that statistic and learned to never take any chances with any part of this.

Very interesting, I'll keep that in mind. Thanks!

In a more practical sense look at it this way, at a land crossing they can just toss you over. game over. thats it.

If you flew in on a plane, they have to get you deported which costs money and energy.

Also they will assume you have more capital if you come by plane than land and thus ask less questions.

Speaking from a Canadian perspective, US flights from Canadian airports (and a select few others) almost exclusively go through pre-clearance. This means you do US customs and immigration on Canadian soil before boarding your flight into the US, and the plane lands in the US as a domestic flight. It's not much different than a land border.

> If you flew in on a plane, they have to get you deported which costs money and energy.

Being denied entry can be quite summary, no proceedings, for most people. Admission is broadly at the discretion of the border officer and recourse for most people is either heavily limited or just straight up zero.

Note that for flights from non-preclearance countries, the airlines are fined if you're not admitted (averaging $3500 at the time of writing but I think closer to $10000 now). I believe they're responsible for paying your way back too. [1] In fact I think USCIS even tried to fine United after paroling a traveler during a transit that wouldn't have otherwise been permitted.

[1] https://airlines.iata.org/2016/10/13/document-verification-t...

> Even a green card holder can be denied re-entry on the basis that they 'abandoned their residency.'

If you're actually living in the US and just taking occasional vacations abroad this is extremely unlikely.

Where people get caught out is when they're trying to basically snowbird between two countries while still on a green card. In that case it's better to first serve your 6 years in the US to earn citizenship. Then you're free to go anywhere anytime you want.

> extremely unlikely

Very true. But the point the OP is making is that your entire fate is in the hands of a CBP officer and they are a very, very mixed bunch.

I repeat OP's advice to avoid a land crossing, I'm not sure exactly what it is but I suspect partly that land crossings have much less time pressure. I've had my car pulled over and partly taken apart looking for "anything suspicious". We were two men in our mid twenties and I think the agents were just bored, honestly.

If you want to 'snowbird' like that without waiting for (or ever planning to get) citizenship, you can apply for an I-327 Re-Entry Permit. [1]

You can apply with form I-131 and like $575.

While it can take 3-12 months to process, if you apply more than 60 days before travel and complete your biometrics appointment, you can leave and pick it up at a foreign embassy or consulate. This helps you avoid the presumption that you abandoned your US residency.

[1] https://rjimmigrationlaw.com/resources/what-is-a-re-entry-pe...

That will mean paying taxes and these snowbirds want to skip that.

Green card holders already have to pay taxes overseas, same as citizens.

> Even a green card holder can be denied re-entry on the basis that they 'abandoned their residency.'

I don't believe CBP is allowed to deny a green card holder entry on this basis if you provide any evidence that amounts to a colorable claim of being an LPR, such as a physical green card. They are allowed to pressure you to officially give up your status by convincing you to sign an I-407, but you have the right to decline that and insist on being let into the country because you believe you did not abandon your residency. In turn, CBP could choose to refer you to an immigration judge, but this would still involve letting you in.

If they do want to bother with the referral, CBP would take the physical green card, give you alternate proof of status, give you a Notice To Appear for removal proceedings before an immigration judge, and let you in with all the same rights as any other green card holder on a tentative basis. Yes, the immigration judge would still revoke permanent residency if you are found to have abandoned your residency, but you have the chance to involve your immigration lawyer and argue your case before the immigration courts. And there might be a long wait before you even get the court date in the first place.

I am not a lawyer or other immigration professional and am speaking generally here based on general information. If you think you might be in a situation where this would happen to you, consult an actual professional for proper legal advice applicable to your case.

> Even a green card holder can be denied re-entry on the basis that they 'abandoned their residency.

Its fine if you stay outside of you for less than 1 year. Beyond that you should get a reentry permit before you leave.

https://help.cbp.gov/s/article/Article-820?language=en_US

After 180 days you're deemed to be seeking a new admission under INA 101(a)(13)(C) which means you're subject to the grounds of inadmissibility on that basis alone. [1] And after 1 year away, it's not a "you should get a REP" it's a "you definitely have to unless you have a medical reason for not being able to come back sooner because they won't let you in without a returning resident visa."

> A permanent resident (called lawful permanent resident or LPR) or conditional resident (CR) who has remained outside the United States for longer than one year, or beyond the validity period of a Re-entry Permit, will require a new immigrant visa to enter the United States and resume permanent residence. A provision exists under U.S. visa law for the issuance of a returning resident special immigrant visa to an LPR who remained outside the United States due to circumstances beyond his/her control. [2]

More than 6 months interrupts your continuous residency for citizenship purposes unless can defend your continued residency during that period, and I am led to believe a REP helps.

Personally I'd err on the side of caution and say if you're regularly away for long periods or if you plan to be away for more than 6 months, it's probably worth the REP. I think any extended or regular absences should probably be regarded with a little more weight than 'it's fine' although most people probably do. If I were gone for more than 6 months I'd expect a pretty significant grilling.

[1] https://www.ilrc.org/sites/default/files/sample-pdf/inadmiss...

[2] https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/us-visas/immigrat...

I know people who didn’t go to their parent’s funeral because they didn’t know if they could get back in the country.

People who had every right to enter the country.

Don’t leave the US unless you absolutely must.

On the plus side, America as one of places for great vacations.

One option is to apply for Global Entry/NEXUS for Canada. You will have a single potentially miserable interview with a CBP officer who might bring your denial up because I'm sure they ask if you've been refused entry before. But if they're happy, you can enter the border without speaking to any agents (or a significantly reduced chance). Once cleared, on arrival, they snap a picture of your face at a kiosk and wave you through on an iPad (no passport involved). It works out to around 20 dollars a year plus your home country's admin fee.

This doesn't solve your problem entirely but if you're legally allowed to be in the US then there's nothing underhand about taking advantage of the program.

I think NEXUS might be easier, but when I did this as a European the border agent didn't really know what to do and was very grumpy that I didn't provide a US address to send my card which I was told by a different airport I didn't need. Once that was sorted, I haven't had any trouble since and it usually eliminates queueing at the border.

If you're physically in the US, do it at an airport if you can get an appointment - they tend to be much more relaxed than the border guards.

I was going to suggest this but I don't think it would prevent being pulled into secondary.

Also, make sure you tell them you are on TN status or they will happily wave you through on B1 which you won't know until you download your updated I94.

> Also, make sure you tell them you are on TN status or they will happily wave you through on B1 which you won't know until you download your updated I94.

Bingo. I had the unfortunate experience of crossing after obtaining a renewal through USCIS, but before my original TN had expired.

Despite giving them all of documentation, including the I-797A and new I94, the agent entered me based on my old TN, which expired.... a couple days later.

> However, the officer denied me the TN status saying I need an Engineering, not Computer Science degree, to qualify for the Engineer TN status.

My wife had a similar thing happen (not a TN visa though). The immigration lawyers got to work and she was allowed to try again a couple weeks later. This time the officer agreed with the assessment that she was qualified for that visa type. The original officer had a very narrow perspective on how a certain job title was defined that was not inline with how most companies operate.

If your company has a Canadian office, the lawyers could try getting you on an L visa. Or there's an E visa. Once you're on one of those visas then your company can sponsor a green card. Green cards are much more stable and they're easier to renew. Then citizenship if you want to go that far.

I am not a lawyer. The transition from TN->GC is possible too under the right (narrow) circumstances. The big tradeoff is not risking travel while within the lifecycle of one TN term, and likely not being able to straddle a GC application across the boundaries of a TN renewal period at all. For some countries of birth, a TN term is not long enough to get through the GC pipeline. But for Canadians born in Canada, ones who have family willing to visit them instead of the other way around, it may be doable. Or for folks born in other countries which have no GC backlog or a short one. YMMV, but I have personally seen someone go L2->TN->GC. An unusual sequence but necessary given the particulars of that case.

It's totally possible to go from TN to GC but you won't be able to leave the United States from the point you file your I140/I485 until your Advanced Parole document turns up. You also can't get a new TN should you need one.

> you won't be able to leave the United States from the point you file your I140/I485 until your Advanced Parole document turns up

How long does this take usually?

8-18 months according to the USCIS website.

I also forgot to mention that you have to wait 91 days from your last entry before filing the I485 to bypass the single-intention of TN.

(CS/EE here who I guess won the womb lottery by being born in the States.) Holy crap, that's absurd and ill-informed on their part. There should be standards on the which accreditation of degrees to accept, not an exhaustive, under-maintained/-reviewed list of specific majors from specific institutions.

The US can only stay competitive by making it easy enough for global talent to want to come here and want to stay. In the past ~15 years, the US has really lost its edge on being the melting pot and welcoming immigrants in a nation built and populated by immigrants (except for native peoples).

PS: Not all CS/engineering degrees are created equal. There are some US institutions where their Computer Science (CS) Bachelor's degree is not accredited by a professional society while the Electrical Engineering (EE), Computer Engineering, etc. are. I switched majors to earn one that was ABET accredited. For new international students, it's vital to check the International Mutual Recognition Agreement (IMRA) for their degree to be sure it's widely recognized by the rest of the world. The cliche is a Russian physicist who ends up teaching US high school biology because of trouble with degree portability.

https://amspub.abet.org/aps/name-search?searchType=program&k...

My advice is to do the renewal without having to go to the border to face capricious judgements by under trained by all powerful border staff. It is possible to do the renewal early and via mail at a main immigration office. Now this information could be dated and please seek the advice of Mr. Roberts for current methods.

This happened to me too. Mind-boggling dumb. Had to switch out of TN (E2 in my case) for it to stop happening.

Still spent 3 years going to secondary, “just because”.

I'm sorry that I'm coming in late to this but for certain TN occupations, the outcome has less to do with the applicant's qualifications or the offered job and more to do with where the applicant applies. There are some airports and land crossings that are very good, that is, reasonable and fair.

As a CS degree holder, I got two TN visas, both as a Computer Systems Analyst. This was ~10 years ago. I'm curious if something has changed to make Computer Systems Analyst positions or applications less frequent.

Cbp officers are sometimes.... dumbasses.

One told me I had to get a Mexican visa if I were to come back since I was visiting so often. Mexican visa. To enter the United States.