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Comment by mattw2121 | Hacker News Reader

"coal demand fell faster than previously expected in the first half of this year in the United States and the European Union — by 24% and 16%, respectively" ..... "demand from the two largest consumers, China and India, grew by over 5% during the first half, more than offsetting declines elsewhere"

This is the crux. Despite the shaming I continually receive here in the US any time I am not 100% supportive of "green" initiatives, other countries are going to do what other countries are going to do.

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The US emits vastly more per capita than China and India. If we’re going to have any chance of stopping this thing before it’s too late, we’re going to have to lead by example (and better, by investing our vast scientific and economic resources into the problem.) Right now China is building tons of coal, but it’s also deploying and building solar and wind much faster than we are. Asking poorer countries to take the burden when we haven’t cleaned up our current mess (let alone historical mess) is actually something we should be ashamed of.

The USA, India and China are all emitting carbon into the same atmosphere. Per capita is a useful metric in some contexts but not here.

If china and india increase their coal energy generation to completely offset reductions in other regions, the reductions are rendered moot.

Speaking of leading by example, the USA’s carbon emissions are on track to see their most significant declines in history. The best part is that private industry is leading the push because the incentives are in place.

Per-capita is absolutely a useful metric when you're asking other countries to take on a burden. When we ask developing nations to reduce their emissions, they rightly point out that this will harm their citizens' living standards. A very good response to this objection would be to prove that we can maintain US-quality living standards while emitting much less per-capita CO2 than China or India do today. Unfortunately (and despite some modest reductions) we're giving them exactly the opposite example, and they're making decisions accordingly.

Also, the US has emitted much more of the total historical output (though I don't know how much of that affects us today) and is vastly more wealthy. If you're the wealthiest person in town, you can't ask the people in the poor neighborhood to make extra sacrifices. The US has a very serious responsibility.

Is the US still the largest user of energy in the world? How about per capita?

My guess is that it is up there, so why bother pointing the finger elsewhere?

Isn't China massively rolling out China and nuclear as well? It feels like their coal usage is bridging, rather than permanent.

> massively rolling out China

I think you need an edit there

indeed I do. I meant rolling out solar.

Per capita absolutely. Per country perhaps not.

The pointing to China and India is pointless. If you invest in other forms of energy, you also set an example for others. And you don't have any right to complain about the pollution of others if you're still polluting more.

And the US, still the richest country in the world, should absolutely take the lead here, instead of demanding that China and India take the lead. China and India should absolutely clean up their energy sector, but so should the US and the EU.

The US and EU are both cleaning up their energy sector. There are setbacks (Germany closed all nuclear power plants in favor of coal, a number of US politicians are trying to drill more oil and dig more coal), but overall both are improving fast.

The US is the 2nd largest energy user in the world -- China is 1st.

This story is about coal usage. China and India use far more coal than the US.

https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/coal-cons...

China imports a billion+ tonnes of raw iron per annum and uses vast amounts of coal to make steel (of many grades, not just "cheap" lowest cost lowest grade) of which a large amount goes to the USofA, Europe and elsewhere.

Given it's trade complexity, a significant portion of its coal use goes toward the manufacture of other peoples consumables to met other peoples demand.

Like it or not the US is part of that chain.

I also point out other people who are worse than I as an excuse not to improve.

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