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> how is that alien ingress have never been noticed?

The US and the USSR had to collaborate on filtering out UAPs from radar early warning systems so we didn't nuke each other.

Two of the people testifying in front of Congress are ex military pilots noting that they saw, and logged on radar, objects.

The third has stated specifically that we do have satellite data and imagery displaying UAPs.

> Why is that UFOs are coming up as pop culture topic just now in last few decade

UFO reports from the middle ages exist, both in paintings and in writings. Ship captains have reports in their logs from the 16 and 1700s. Reports from within the U.S. in the 1800s exist.

I haven't provided references here in the interest of my time, but all of what I stated here is readily verifiable with a few internet searches.

All arguments of the form "where is the evidence" are moot at this point, as there is a mountain of evidence. The issue today is provenance. With claims so large, even HD video of an object and creatures in real time wouldn't be enough. The only thing that would convince people is the word of the US (or some other major country) government itself providing evidence, which it has done in small doses, and is the only reason this hearing is happening.

> The US and the USSR had to collaborate on filtering out UAPs from radar early warning systems so we didn't nuke each other.

And as we know they're the only countries with radar and observation abilities.

> Two of the people testifying in front of Congress are ex military pilots noting that they saw, and logged on radar, objects.

> The third has stated specifically that we do have satellite data and imagery displaying UAPs.

This is nothing new. There's plenty of "stuff" that can get tagged as a UAP/UFO/Whatever. None of it has turned out to be aliens.

> UFO reports from the middle ages exist, both in paintings and in writings. Ship captains have reports in their logs from the 16 and 1700s. Reports from within the U.S. in the 1800s exist.

We've also got reports of dragons, krakens, bigfoot, the lochness, ghosts, psychic powers, and magic. Hell there's a couple of rather popular books talking about all sorts of phenomena like talking burning bushes, parting the sea, and walking on water.

> All arguments of the form "where is the evidence" are moot at this point, as there is a mountain of evidence.

No, it just isn't. HARD EVIDENCE does not exist. Even a mild dive into the claims shows how absurd all of these are, and often very real explanations are given, verified, and ignored by the community that wants to believe. It's got all the rigor of pizzagate and is in fact less likely to be possible.

> And as we know they're the only countries with radar and observation abilities.

They're not? Are you implying that by pointing out one event I'm explicitly excluding the possibility of others? Not sure that follows.

> This is nothing new. There's plenty of "stuff" that can get tagged as a UAP/UFO/Whatever. None of it has turned out to be aliens.

Depends on who you ask, which was kin of my entire point. There is tons of evidence, what missing is provenance.

> We've also got reports of dragons, krakens, bigfoot, the lochness, ghosts, psychic powers, and magic. Hell there's a couple of rather popular books talking about all sorts of phenomena like talking burning bushes, parting the sea, and walking on water.

Again, the was my point. I wasn't saying "here is all the 100% proven evidence". I was saying "there is no evidence" is an inaccurate statement.

> No, it just isn't. HARD EVIDENCE does not exist

There is plenty of material, with plenty of seals of approval, just not from the U.S. gov.

> All arguments of the form "where is the evidence" are moot at this point, as there is a mountain of evidence

Sorry, I haven’t seen a single decent photo or video—everything is always blurry, distant, or ambiguous. And this is after a decade where virtually everyone is constantly carrying a camera on their person.

That argument would be "where is the indisputable evidence", and I would point out that no evidence is indisputable, especially when it concerns something as ridiculous as UFOs.

I'll point out 2 things:

1) The videos released to the NY times for their 2017 story are compressed and downscaled version of much higher quality videos the US gov has in it possession. That is indisputable fact as the US gov itself freely admits that.

2) You probably haven't looked. I've seen many convincing photos and videos, but unless their from an F-XX aircraft and the D.O.D tells me it is what it is, I ignore them because pictures and video have been easy to fake for as long as picture and video have existed. Here is one I like: https://www.reddit.com/r/UFOs/comments/13dmaif/black_triangl... No way to know if it's legit or not, like I've said, but pretty cool either way.

> All arguments of the form "where is the evidence" are moot at this point, as there is a mountain of evidence.

We haven't seen a single clear evidence yet. The objects captured from fighter jet IR cameras discussed in the past have also had explanation of lens flares and focal aberrations. True color image corresponding of the same event do not exist. No two accounts of unidentified activities are also same with inconsistencies one observes when people extend stories based on tenuous observation/experience

> The objects captured from fighter jet IR cameras discussed in the past have also had explanation of lens flares and focal aberrations

One is a potential flare/focal aberration. The other two have no such explanation, and one of the three has radar tracking, followed by pilot interaction (David Fravor), then was videod by a second pilot on encounter (the video that was released.

Keep in mind also that all three are very low quality versions of the originals.

So, what stops the US government from making this an elaborate psyops activity. Why should it be aliens _only_?

In an unstable world, where power projection is necessary & inevitable, it is a tactical move to neither confirm or deny existence of unparalleled technological edge. Create an elaborate story around unexplained IR camera observation. Potentially drop breadcrumbs & leave it ambiguous to project existence of superior otherworldly technology.

I believe most of us agree at this point, whatever proof publicly exists isn't incontrovertible - but ambiguous enough to be an umbrella for other top secret projects. Aliens aren't selectively choosing US - if you pause & think. And if that should not happen, evidence of similar standing should pop up elsewhere as well. The fact it isn't seen by India China Turkey Japan or any other sufficiently advanced military, is somehow not matching up with critical reasoning. (And many of these militaries actually do have strong public outreach just like US af-mil)

Leaving aside the military, clear photos have not showed up from the regular citizenry despite us having astrophotography capabilities in phones since sometime. The evidence or lack of it, isn't adding up

> So, what stops the US government from making this an elaborate Psyops activity. Why should it be aliens _only_?

That just depends on what evidence you do, or do not believe. Depending on your selection, and number of explanations may make sense.

> In an unstable world, where power projection is necessary & inevitable, it is a tactical move to neither confirm or deny existence of unparalleled technological edge

Personally, I'd believe UFOs were all fake/mistakes before I believed it was real technology held by any government.

> The fact it isn't seen by India China Turkey Japan or any other sufficiently advanced military

It is. UFO reports come out of all of those countries. India has a religious tradition with very clear UFO references, and videos come out of China all the time (although they tend to be purposely faked 100% of the times I've seen).

NUFORC has a kaggle dataset in fact: https://www.kaggle.com/datasets/NUFORC/ufo-sightings

> It is. UFO reports come out of all of those countries. India has a religious tradition with very clear UFO references, and videos come out of China all the time (although they tend to be purposely faked 100% of the times I've seen).

I have lived/ been a citizen/ married to someone from each of these listed places. UFO reference in Hinduism is zero. I am practicing Hindu - I can vouch with 100% certainty. My wife is devout Buddhist/ formerly Christian & she confirms there is nothing in their scripture. I cannot engage any of these answers in good faith of critical thinking, as whenever there is a question of evidence, it is either trust-me-bro or it-is-classified

I literally pointed you to a kaggle file of reports from a major UFO reporting organization. And with regard to Hindu UFOs, I was referring to Vimana.

Not sure what you expect me to present as far as evidence goes when my point is "there is a ton of dubious evidence, but evidence none-the-less".

> I literally pointed you to a kaggle file of reports from a major UFO reporting organization.

Kaggle competition is a supporting evidence for you?

> And with regard to Hindu UFOs, I was referring to Vimana.

Those were depicted as chariots mostly drawn by flying horses or elephants in Ramayana & Mahabharata. Unless you consider flying horses as aliens. Also, these were written as poetic verses with generous doses of imagination.

> Not sure what you expect me to present as far as evidence goes when my point is "there is a ton of dubious evidence, but evidence none-the-less".

Let me help by stating: There is a ton of dubious statements from many people which doesn't count as evidence (those testifying without shred of evidence to congress). More of he-said-she-said trust-me-bro. Hence why I asserted these aren't worth discussing anymore. And quoting them as support is not good faith in a scientific evidence-oriented discussion

There are conspiracy theories & then there are conspiracy dogmas group of people fall trap to & blindly propagate, much like religion. Then usual responses to reasonable scientific queries become topics of (1) our science isn't developed enough (2) godly metaphysics isn't known enough (3) reasons of alien presence/ absence/ ambiguity aren't clear enough - despite strong evidence to the contrarian opinion.

> Kaggle competition is a supporting evidence for you?

No, but NUFORC is?

> More of he-said-she-said trust-me-bro. Hence why I asserted these aren't worth discussing anymore

You're more than welcome to stop discussing it then?

dude, your kaggle thing literally only shows reports from the US, Canada, UK, Germany, and Australia. did you not even look at it or are you lying?

There are 22k+ rows, and scrolling through the first few hundred I see Lithuania, Sweden, Denmark, Japan, and Peru.

I'm not sure why you're dedicated to the idea that no other countries having UFO sightings. Even if it was just clutter and balloons, it seems reasonable for people all over the world to make mistakes and thing something mundane is fantastic. It doesn't seem like a very useful point in either direction of the discussion.

> So, what stops the US government from making this an elaborate psyops activity

After watching the hearing today, I was starting to suspect that we're party to this psyops campaign. It's one of the most outlandish things I've seen in recent memory.

All of the guys are credentialed and I didn't get the impression that anyone was grifting anything.

They definitely think it's real. I suspect something is real, but I get the impression that the real thing is not what they think it is.

There’s a pretty good chance the Nimitz incident was an intentional decoy self-test by the Navy IMO. Clouds give a radar return, so a projected plasma target would probably also give a radar return.

I'd tend to agree, but the fact that we are inventing top secret technology and programs to explain a sighting is itself a sign of a problem worth investigating, no?

Like, if that's a reasonable conclusion, then by leaving pilots misinformed we've effectively broadcast the tech to our adversaries. Maybe that was the intent, but it seems like a senselessly roundabout method if so.

It seems to me that this stuff might be an intentional leak in order to distract from more earthy political issues, so they actually want it to get out into the news.

The DoD loves the myths. It's not about the existent of extraterrestrials. It's about a government so powerful that they would be able to cover it up and keep it secret. A government that can hide the existence of extraterrestrials, that can fake a moon landing, that can demolish skyscrapers in the middle of a city, is a powerful government and one that needs trillions of dollars a year. The amorphous "they" wants you to believe.

Worth noting that Russia does actually have similar myths, likely for the same reasons.

I just wrapped up Skunkworks and put the book down pretty impressed at what the DoD and Lockheed were able to keep secret. The author described Skunkworks' mission "again and again" as creating aircraft that were technologically unbelievable to America's enemies, so they would have no means to even reckon with a defense. The USSR spent hundreds of billions of rubles on an impenetrable anti-air defense network, Lockheed built a plane that could fly right through it and drop a bomb through a Kremlin chimney, and everyone kept it a secret for years. The author also repeatedly alluded to projects from throughout his career that remained classified at the time, one of these was the F-22.

My takeaway there is more that it's believable pilots have sighted unidentifiable aircraft exhibiting technologically implausible behavior because those craft are classified projects, rather than because they're extraterrestrial craft, but I don't think it's so plainly unbelievable that the government can't keep secret projects under wraps. The stealth modified helicopters used in the Bin Laden raid come to mind, and really, those are pretty boring as far as "top secret technology" goes, and were apparently in pretty regular use already.

> but I don't think it's so plainly unbelievable that the government can't keep secret projects under wraps.

Rare triple negation. Also, I couldn't follow the last bit. Were you saying that basically what we imply as dazzling mind boggling technology is a top secret projects waiting to be unveiled / discovered?

That’s lunch hour commenting for you I guess, don’t tell my old AP comp teacher or even this many years on she’d literally kill me.

And yeah, I mean after reading the book I feel:

- it is plausible witnesses have seen aircraft behaving in ways they believed were technologically or physically impossible

- it is much much more likely those craft were classified projects than extraterrestrials

- the USA has previously created, and kept secret, aircraft levering technological innovations that had recently seemed impossible

Everything you wrote was addressed in the hearing today. There are many, many incidents and we would not be flying these things in training areas that jeopardize flight safety of our own pilots, for one.

The human ability to deny to others and oneself is stronger than we think. There's a vast set of people that saw them in Phoenix, astronauts, there's evidence in many places that we tend to ignore.

I've met Travis Walton. He is one of the most genuine people I have ever met. We're just not listening (some people are but most are not capable of hearing it).

I understand. But out of curiosity: why is there no material evidence across the different civilizations. Surely all of humanity couldn't be duping themselves and only US is speaking up in 21st century.

I am _not_ a non-believer. It is just the lack of scientific historicity and diversity of evidence that bothers me. I cannot reconcile that mountain of contradiction with the current testimony. It is one Congressional account of definitive existence, versus the absence of conclusive proof or material evidence anywhere else.

> public narrative of accounts from pre-modern times

There are.

For example: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1561_celestial_phenomenon_over...

Now, none of them are as clear and objective as "A being that was obvious not human spoke to me and told me about themselves. They are ..." - but that doesn't mean we don't have a ton of incidents reported over the centuries.

The celestial phenomenon over Nuremberg & Basel have been time & again discussed to be purported works of fiction. (This is also from a recent cursory literature review on the topic in JSTOR).

Summarily, many supernatural themed events were written by fantasy writers of those age to peddle to crowds outside their region. Those people have died, and the enigma forgotten - but these writings have found their way as proto-evidence of unusual activity from medieval times & now being used to support arguments.