If your goal is for your kids to not have access to smartphone apps, dangers and distractions, I fear it'll fail spectacularly.

If your goal is to build self reliance and problem solving skills, you may succeed in unintended ways.

I was born in 1979. I touched my first computer probably at age 6. I programmed in GWbasic when I was 10 or so, started turbo Pascal and oracle db lessons when I was 11. War started when I was 12, my dad got wounded when walking to work, and I was basically a fully fledged prepubescent adult partially responsible for family survival. And I am not special. (This is lateral to the meticulous way I built a flame thrower at 12 as well:)

Point is, 12 and 13 year olds are smart and resourceful and have a lot of time and motivation to outwit you. We somehow forget our 12 year old selves when we become adults. I reread enders game when I need to remind myself (my initial reaction to the book was "what a horribly unrealistic way to portray kids, they think like adults", followed by the realization I did think like that as a kid! We just start telling ourselves weird tales of superiority as we get old).

You are not repeat not going to successfully keep your kids from this stuff until they're 14. My 12 year old niece who is like the most innocent person I know taught me more about dark Web than I knew. You don't raise your child in isolation. They'll learn from you but also hundred other kids. You can hope to be involved and maybe, maybe guide. I fear that by not giving them access yourself in a guided fashion, all you'll be doing is ensuring they have it in unguided fashion.

(Fwiw I have a 2 and 4 year old and struggle with exact same questions coming up)

If you just hold it over their head, they'll go find some other kid whose parents' entire parenting philosophy is "give iPad". You should make sure to explain to them why you're restricting the tech (and be open if you think the kids are mature enough to understand). "You could download bad things that spy on you or get exposed to bad content - it even happens to a lot of adults" is a much better explanation than "ooo spooky bad stuff on internet".

My final suggestion, and what I wish my parents had done, is allowed me to use the internet freely, with supervision (and an adblocker). Instead of letting them go on YouTube or Reddit to watch random streamers, let (and encourage) them to try learning Spanish, Python, electronic music, whatever. It would have been extremely fun for me as a kid to learn about "advanced" stuff like coding actual websites or messing with the terminal instead of playing with the sanitized block-code websites. They'll also pick up useful skills in the process, and be entertained in a productive way. Much better than restricting or allowing everything imo.

Also, the fact that you're considering this makes you a better parent than half the population nowadays. Keep your kids from consuming garbage and they will thank you later!

Your kids will be excluded from a lot of conversations and events. They will feel ostricized socially and will inevitably be frustrated at you because of it.

Having no phone versus a dumb phone would make the resentment worse. No idea what the best answer is beyond all of society collectively realizing it's a bad idea to give smartphones to young kids.

I'm not sure what the modern equivalent is, and there are certainly plenty of other ways to gauge responsibility and honesty, but there are phones that can't be used for much except calling and texting specific people.

In general, if someone is old enough to seek something out, banning them from it isn't going to work, anyway. I don't support the iPad/YouTube model of parenting, but I also don't think kids who grow up with things are as/more susceptible to them because of when they were introduced.

My kid has had an iPad from age 1 or so, with kiosk mode enabled and a baby game that made funny noises when they slapped the screen.

They got a phone at age 7, just before starting first grade. No Youtube, no TikTok and screen time enforced per category and per program. The only one I "cheated" the age with was WhatsApp, because it's the default communication tool over here.

It's about 5 years later and I've still managed to keep them off Youtube by giving more screen time in Netflix/Disney+/our PBS equivalent etc, where the content is actually produced and not some youtube elsagate horror show or a screaming influencer hawking off whatever a sponsor is telling them to sell this week.

At this point asking for screen time with good grounds is a habit for the kid: "Homework is done and I read The Trials of Morrigan Crow for 30 minutes, can I get screen time?" It's also used mostly for background noise, iPad is on a stand somewhere with a random show running and they're drawing or doing some crafts while it's playing.

The rule we follow is that every 15 minute slot spent reading (comics or books) is given out double as screen time.

Having said that, you are early enough that you still have time to convince the other parents in their grade cohort to take a pledge like "Wait Until 8th" https://www.waituntil8th.org/ (In the US, 8th grade is 13-14 years old.) This provides a kind of "herd immunity" as long as you get enough families on board.

And if your school does not already have them in place you can advocate for anti-cell-phone policies which minimize classroom time as a potential vector.

Be forewarned that you may not be successful unless you are also willing to cut social ties with families who cave in and give their kids phones before then.

I reckon if they can maintain enough income to cover that, they're ready for one.

Still can't have it late at night, though. And if they do anything too dumb with it, it's gone, and they can buy another when they graduate.

Phones are cheap, kids are clever, etc. Unintended consequences seem like a guarantee

Granted, I'm not a parent

Croatia might be a factor only because prevalence of smartphone use among teenagers there might be lower. Just guessing.

(In the US, kids typically turn 14 before or during 8th grade.)

She is not yet addicted though because appart from instant messaging she doesn't have access to social media apps and I limit strongly the amount of hours of use and outside of her small quota the phone cannot stay in her room. So she is still using it to discuss with friends asynchronously.

My son is 11, and finally got a phone, but with a talk and text plan, no data. He can take it to school but only if he thinks he is going to go to a friend's house after, so he can ask us/tell us what he is up to.

We fully understand he can just walk to the community centre to get WiFi, and recenlty told me how to access the School Board's WiFi LOL. In fact, he worked the AV club there managing all their gear for the school play. We fully understood he has the "knack" and we can't stop him, so we helped him, and by doing so, it built trust, and we explained why bringing the phone in the class is a distraction. It's not that the phone is bad, it just takes away from learning.

I have saying at home. When we eat, we eat. That means we do that one task, and nothing else. So in the class, when you learn, you learn.

They have their scheduled video time, weekends are 1hr morning, 30min afternoon, and 1 hour evening. If we take trips or go with friends, the time is gone. There is no "banking" your time.

The other interesting thing, and this was confirmed by my friend who is a high school teacher, is that Parents were the ones calling their kids the most during classes! Of course, there will be a boyfriend here and there, but overall, it's Grandma calling, or mom/dad.

Back on topic...we use an iPhone, because we can control which apps he can install, and it notifies us to approve/deny. This helps a lot. Also, Discord is a nightmare. Luckily, his account is installed on all of our phones, so we can see the chats, and some chats were REALLY bad. So we had a talk about them, and he even sided with us! SHOCKING!! I guess what I have to say is, if you are there with them in this journey, you are more likely to be able to guide them along, and be sure not to make a big deal if something bad happens, like a chat where someone posts inappropriate pictures, e.g. Porn, etc, and just direct them to the correct path.

Btw, my 11 year old can change my car tires and use all my power tools. He really has the knack. So that's why we knew banning wouldn't work. My younger son hasn't shown the same maturity, and generally follows along the rules that his big brother follows. So the effort you put in one kid, could be reused after. Although I don't think we will get our youngest a phone as early as our oldest, as he is happier playing active sports. He tends to be grumpy and doesn't handle losing at games, and doesn't know how to fix a controller that stops works. So his view of technology is not the same as our other son. So be aware that every kid is different in skill and cognitive abilities.

or your kid might turn out like me. you don't think there are ways a clever 11, 12, 13 year old can get a phone, and hide it from you?