Hacker News Reader

Comment by topshelf | Hacker News Reader

Disappointing to see such a 180 on 'don't be evil'.

I'm recommending Mozilla Firefox to all friends and family.

I do, and I keep having those tiring conversations, but it's really hard to get the point across in layman's terms. I have enough friends in tech who stick with Chrome out of convenience instead of just falling back on it in case something actually doesn't work in Firefox. how do I convince tech illiterate people of doing this?

It's faster. The same old justification that was used to switch to Chrome can now be used for Firefox.

For the tech illiterate recommend Safari. For tech people, appeal to their privileged position and the importance of defending the web by choosing any other browser (or Safari).

Both users can keep Chrome installed as a fallback - that will help with convincing too.

And drop my Ublock origin, bypass paywall clean, etc? Hell no.

> Ublock origin

At least there is Adguard.

> For the tech illiterate recommend Safari.

That's only applicable to Apple users, though.

Tech illiterate people should be using MacOS anyway. Windows just gets worse every year. MacOS is actually more like classic Windows than Windows 11 is so it's actually easier to use for tech illiterate people.

Didn't Apple implement this same type of thing in Safari a year or so ago?

You can’t, realistically. I don’t think there’s any repeatable or effective way to make non-nerds (AKA most people) care about this sort of thing.

Start referring to them as "Chrome developers" -- what's this "web" thing you keep talking about?

Whenever a new device needs to be setup for my parents, I just install whatever I use (Firefox in this case). Then I show them the things they need on a day by day basis. The problem are people who did grow up with tech. They will say things like it will take too long. In cases like this you need to manipulate them based on their personality.

I was just able to finally move my wife back to Firefox. Chrome just stopped working on her Mac. Wouldn't pull up a page. Everything else worked.

She's now happily using Firefox with a non-hobbled version of uBlock Origin.

I don’t think this indicative of chrome being bad on Mac. What did you try to resolve the issue?

Because I could say chrome always works for me (which would be true in my experience), but that doesn’t mean it always does.

Clearing all state (all saved data and cookies), Incognito mode, disabling the few extensions she was running. When it got to the point where the only thing left to do was reinstall Chrome, we installed Firefox instead.

Unfortunately Firefox doesn't have a good UI/UX after all.

The last time I checked, multiple profiles support is somehow half-baked.

Not sure why you're getting downvoted, but this is a big deal IMO. We're here because Chrome has been the better product for a long time. Firefox not doing things people want well enough will hurt its adoption, which will impact its capacity to influence the Web.

Add to Mozilla's perceived not-very-good management and you have a death spiral on your hands, and more power to Google and Apple to shape the Web towards their interests.

FWIW, first-class profiles support matters a lot: https://medium.com/sort-of-like-a-tech-diary/profiles-the-on...

Mozilla in the past ignored the criticism users had regarding UI/UX changes and went with deploying this bulky mobile-oriented interface for desktops. And here we are.

This itself is one issue; there are also all sorts of adventures they decide to go for little to not at all related to the browser development, and which are conducted to convince people all around the world that they're a good humane corporation that cares. Igh.

Multiple profiles is fully supported. It's just hidden behind a clunky UX.

Also check out firefox containers which is to profiles what docker is to virtual machines.

Containers are useful, but it's like having a few similar terminal windows open. Eventually you'll type something on the wrong window... at least I found myself searching for personal stuff on my work Google container.

With profiles I can have different bookmarks, extensions, and even a different theme so I'm aware I'm on my personal profile, not on a work profile. Since switching profiles on Firefox + macOS is a pain in the butt, I use 2 different Firefox channels (stable + dev).

Anyway, containers are nice, but they're not a replacement for profiles.

> Anyway, containers are nice, but they're not a replacement for profiles.

This, so much. Anytime I've brought up profiles on Firefox, I'm told about this alternative that isn't a replacement for the feature.

Safari is (finally) bringing this, so maybe the folks at FF will begin to see this as a feature worth investing in. First-class profiles support is one of the main reasons I stick to Chrome, despite trying to switch.

Yeah, AFAIK to setup profiles you have to run:

    firefox --ProfileManager

And then to use them you have to start firefox e.g. :

    firefox -P <profile-name>

Very few casual users (nor even most technical users) start Firefox from a command line, and setting up shortcuts for these is also a step that most users won't do.

The support for profiles is there, it's just hard to use in the context of a GUI desktop.

can't you just go to about:profiles?

Wow. I never knew. Thanks!

> It's just hidden behind a clunky UX.

That's part of the "problem" with Firefox's support of profiles. It feels more like an afterthought and less like a primary use case the product wants to surface. To approximate the functionality Chrome has, I had to bookmark "about:profiles" and make it my home page.

Chrome also added this nifty feature that lets you open links as a Profile, making it easy to switch.

These may seem like small issues, but the end up mattering.

Firefox is also missing a don't allow any website to play audio unless explicitly enabled setting (mute tabs by default, except on allowed sites), as far as I can tell.

I think it has?

Go to Settings, and search for Autoplay (or in the left navigation, select Privacy and Security and scroll to Permissions).

Click the Settings button next to Autoplay, and set the default to whatever you like (amongst them "Block Audio").

That's not the same thing. Chrome's setting can force audio to be muted regardless of user interactions or manually started playback, until the website settings are changed to allow sound.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com