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Comment by smt88 | Hacker News Reader

> Apple famously doesn't do any of this with your iPhone

You're arguing in favor of a product tour. iOS usability is garbage. There are no affordances. Nothing is discoverable. There are a million inputs (mostly gestures) that no one ever finds out about unless someone tells them or they Google it, and they're not consistent across apps, even first-party apps. Sometimes "swipe the row left" means "remove," sometimes it means "more actions". It's just a jumble of inconsistent nonsense.

Watch a non-tech person use their iPhone. They have no idea that they can do 50% of the things that they can do. Ever see anyone use "shake to undo" for example?

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People not knowing some of the features is not really a problem, because it doesn't matter. Every single one of my elderly relatives can use an iPhone after a quick intro and they don't need help afterwards. The device is essentially self-serve once you understand one or two core ideas. Them not knowing about some features is not a problem, they can do all the important things without someone helping them out. No other smartphone platform has delivered that.

Come on, iOS is not so special. Grandmas all over the world get by just fine on an Android as well. If you don't do much with your device, you don't need much. At the same time, it is obvious that gestures should be consistent, and the documentation should be clear, on device, and easy to find.

I think this is a point where we'll fundamentally disagree, for all practical intents and purposes, no regular user ever has or ever will read the manual for their smartphone. Your phone comes with one, have you read it? Documentation is a crutch for complexity and it's only acceptable for hard topics and advanced users. Most people don't even touch the manuals for all the appliances they own, never mind your elderly relatives. If they run into a problem, they'll ask someone to help, not look for the manual.

I think you’re missing a key fact about who cell phone users _can_ _be_. The dumbest people on this planet can still pick up any iPhone anywhere and be able to use it even if they’ve never used the device itself once. It’s muscle memory to people who wouldn’t know what to do with a manual in the first place. You have to accept that there is no barrier to advanced communication technology to anyone with the means to procure said devices. While I appreciate a finely tuned platform for my technology uses, I still carry an iPhone in particular so that I don’t need to do all of that advanced tweaking and personalization by sacrificing maybe 5% of my overall performance by using an unmodified iPhone running iOS in particular. Sacrificing that 5% of performance means the device has no barrier of entry for 99.9% of humans old enough and cognizant enough to procure a similar technology and be able to fully interact with me on a digital medium. Bringing it back to the topic at hand, those 99.9% of people includes family members who didn’t grow up with electricity let alone technology.

Haha, every few weeks I do some magic gesture, and my iPad duplicates the current application in a separate window. I never did it intentionally, and to this day I have no idea how to do it back. Also, I can't fathom who and why would want to do it.

But the good, old Apple troubleshooting works: nuke it, and start again. If I close the app and restart it, then it's back to its single window form.

Oh, well.

> Every single one of my elderly relatives can use an iPhone after a quick intro

So, after an onboarding workflow, in other words. What's the difference between giving them a quick intro, and their being some form of onboarding built into the application? Consider people who don't have someone on hand to introduce them to the product: how should they gain that same level of competence?

> People not knowing some of the features is not really a problem, because it doesn't matter

It does matter. I started using a iPhone maybe a couple of years back, after using an Android phone for many many years, and I still find out stuff randomly by chance that they could have just told me about.

Biggest example when I just got the phone, took me maybe a couple of days before I understood that swiping from the top of the screen and down depends on if you're on the left side or right side of the phone, which decides if you see the notifications vs the "control panel" thing. Initially it felt random which one it showed.

And I'm a technical user, probably in the top 1% when it comes to technical knowledge compared to the rest of the userbase of iPhones. And how do you think things like that works out for the rest of the people who don't work with technology for a living?

My non-English-speaking first-gen immigrant grandma that assembled rice cookers in factories back in her day figured slide down for notifications, right slide down for control panel, and slide up on day 4.

My mom didn’t ask about it until after the first year.

So to answer your question… maybe it doesn’t take to be the top 1% of something.

“Shake to undo” also doesn’t work more often than it does. You’d assume an OS-specific keyboard interaction would work anywhere there’s text input, but no!

The only time I use that gesture is when I drop my phone.

You can disable it in Accessibility settings

> They have no idea that they can do 50% of the things that they can do

Maybe even more than that. I know people that have used iOS for years and don't know they can copy/paste text or drag down to search in messages, mail and settings.

>> iOS usability is garbage

Yes, that must be why my technologically illiterate 90-year-old grandpa was able to figure out how to use an iPhone after being shown a single swipe gesture.

My 65, at the time, year old father figured out Android just fine. What point was your n of 1 example trying to make?

Please try to keep in mind there is a wide breadth of technical prowess, thought patterns, and comprehension out there. What works great for some people doesn't for others. Also something to keep it mind being able to "figure something out" or "use it" doesn't necessarily make it a good experience, or an ideal one.

Please excuse the last remnants of the technology debate of “Are Apple products worth the higher price tag of their very capable competitors?” It’s been happening since Apple came into existence with people defending or arguing against Macintosh computers to where it is now with cell phones and the higher cost of entry priced iPhones. The ecosystem Apple created is the great divider. It’s a closed garden in every sense of the word, but still a great garden where if you’re okay with the HOA, you can live right on top of.

These are basically power user features. You don’t need them to get by on everyday tasks. They just help. Just like right-click on the desktop.

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