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> only to get your eyebrows singed and a lungfull of half combusted propane

I dare say, something is wrong with your stove if any of this is even half true. Either that, or people need to learn to cook.

This article is about the particulate being released from the items inside the pan. Such as fats/oils burning... which will happen no matter what style pan or range top you use.

I generally agree, though I did somewhat regularly singe the hair on my knuckles. A lot of the heat from a gas burner goes up the side of the pan. And turning on a vent fan can suck a surprising amount of heat away from the pan. That does kinda suck since gas isn't really very powerful to begin with.

I switched recently to induction and I'm very happy. I did have to relearn some cooking habits, of course, because induction is so much faster and more powerful than gas. The instant temperature change is super handy, too. Gas is relatively fast, too, but still slow compared to induction.

> The instant temperature change is super handy

It's amazing to me to see us careening towards a future of doubling, tripling, or even quadrupling every household's electricity usage - but we're not doing anything to ensure the capacity is there to handle the demand. Every new power plant, dam, nuclear, etc is met with fierce opposition...

Induction uses a tremendous amount of electricity, and is expensive to operate. So are the other current trendy items, such as heat pumps and electric vehicles.

We have no way to support all this, even if they were objectively better (and the fact that there is debate around this subject proves just the opposite).

It's also strange to see the duality of complaining about things like bitcoin wasting electricity, while we also advocate for massive increases in consumption everywhere else.

For now, Induction ranges are a thing for those privileged enough to be able to afford them, all the peripherals required to operate them (cookware, etc), and operational expenses.

You're somehow ignoring the fact that natural gas is ... an energy source. Cooking uses energy, period, whether it's delivered in a pipe or a wire. The difference is that electricity _can_ be generated in a carbon-neutral way, but methane can't.

The other underlying question is about the conversion efficiency of, e.g., natural gas to electricity to heat (generation station -> house -> induction stove) vs directly burning gas at the stove. And the answer is -- induction often wins out, because gas stoves are pretty inefficient (they let a lot of heat energy bypass the pan). And it wins from an indoor air quality perspective. Where it may not win is cost, depending on the relative prices of gas and electricity where you live. But full electrification of your house allows you to save the costs of the monthly gas hookup and may reduce insurance costs.

I don’t necessarily agree nor disagree with your position. However

> save the costs of the monthly gas hookup

For anyone wondering how much a common gas (propane) stove costs: I have a 100 gallon propane tank that cost ~$300 to fill and lasts multiple years without a refill.

My whole-house generator also runs off the same propane tank. So I refill it maybe once a year (where we average 1-2 days without power per year).

One unspoken benefit of gas: it works without electricity.

I hate the inside air pollution, though.

I could see myself maybe trying induction. I could never switch ti electric. Personal preference but when I turn on a stove I don’t have patience to wait for it to warm up.

Funny.. here in Pennsylvania, that 100 gallon tank is over $800 to fill and lasts only half the winter. Here I was thinking we had low propane costs.

> lasts only half the winter

Are you also running your heat off the tank? Because it sounds like your parent isn't.

In Pittsburgh, my summertime natural gas bill is about $25 - That's with a gas stove, gas, water heater, and gas dryer. Of that, $14.50 is just the cost to be hooked up to gas. IOW, the connection fee is substantially higher than the cost of the energy I use to cook.

(My winter time bill is much higher; we heat the house with a gas boiler.)

But there's $174/year of savings available if we went all-electric. Which we won't do any time soon, alas.

You won't be saving with eclectic though - since in majority of the US electric is more expensive per unit of power than natural gas.

There's really no reality where you save $14.50 per month by switching to full electric. Rather, your electric bill will skyrocket.

It's more expensive per unit power but heat pumps are more efficient than natural gas boilers. I can't easily retrofit, but a very high SEER heat pump comes out to a similar annual cost as my existing 96% efficient natural gas boiler. But only a very high efficiency one; a middle of the road heat pump loses, partly because I have a very high efficiency condensing boiler and partly because PA has fairly affordable gas rates.

Induction uses less electricity than conventional resistance electric stoves, which have been around for a long time. The power usage is high but generally the stove is only on for maybe 15 minutes for most meals. Longer cooking times are more commonly done in an oven.

If you really wanted to cut down on energy used by households then the single biggest thing is making sure all homes are properly insulated to cut down on both heating and cooling.

Electric vehicles are an actual concern, but the issue there can be largely mitigated by making sure they're primarily charged off peak which is also something we have done for a long time with electric water heaters.

Agreed. I’ve used induction and really enjoy it. When my gas stove at my current (new to us) house is done, I will definitely replace with induction.

However, gas is just fine and these problems are way overblown.

> This article is about the particulate being released from the items inside the pan.

That's right; this is all with an electric range.

I have induction. The air quality is the same. It's not the source of energy so much as it is the cooking of the product itself. My air quality goes to red with induction or gas. Induction doesn't yield cleaner air. Its the smoke from the meat or vegetables changing with the oil and fats.

Perhaps that's more of a measurement issue? The combustion byproducts of gas are very real and measurable, and getting rid of those definitely helps. Even if the cooking itself contributes as well. I don't get much smoke from my cooking, though, so it could just be that.

The byproducts and smoke of cooking meat and vegetables are the real issue. What do you make? In the old days we would probably be cooking this stuff inside.

Not sealed off homes with simulated cooling or heating.

FWIW with my AQ meter it seems like how you use the stove matters more. When I boil water with my gas stove, barely anything changes. Same thing with heating a frying pan. But as soon as you pour some oil on it, the PM2.5 spikes.

I love my induction but certain types of cooking, specially anything with a wok, just doesn’t work with induction. Sometimes you need that heat wrapping up the sides.

> […] specially anything with a wok, just doesn’t work with induction.

J. Kenji López-Alt, who recently literally wrote the/a book on wok cooking, would disagree:

* https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2023/01/j-kenji-lo...

See also Jon Kung, a professional chef (at least before going YT full-time):

* https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ooNzRrHA9VY

A video from Yale Appliances (Boston, MA) who sell both gas and electric:

* https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q2J9MrY0dK4

One of your sources is selling cook tops, the other has a very specialized induction stand-alone cooktop made just for woks, and the other article is cut off behind a paywall.

The source that sells cook tops doesn't claim "it's just as good" or even provide any evidence of it being as good. You can in fact use a wok on any cook top, it doesn't mean the results will be good.

Induction can be good, but it's very expensive and uses enormous amounts of electricity.

There is nothing wrong with natural gas - other than it's trendy to push electric currently. There's no future where everyone can afford to buy/replace one, or even operate them.

> One of your sources is selling cook tops

Yes, both gas and electric. See also their video "Induction Cooking: Pros and Cons - Part 1":

* https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AduTdSF3_go

And "Induction vs Pro Gas Cooking: Pros & Cons":

* https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hoWqMTUBT_4

> Induction can be good, but it's very expensive and uses enormous amounts of electricity.

Currently more than resistive electric, and some gas ranges. Define "enormous". Because about two-thirds of US households already use electricity as the cooking fuel source:

* https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=37552

And induction would probably use it more efficiently since the energy goes directly to the pan. So if more folks switched from the coil-resistive electric stoves they most likely already have to induction there would be a net reduction in energy use.

> There is nothing wrong with natural gas - other than it's trendy to push electric currently.

And the fact that it's highly inefficient, throws oodles of heat into your kitchen, and methane is a greenhouse gas (GWP>>1)—but besides that Mrs. Lincoln…. See also perhaps Adam Ragusea on his own gas stove:

* https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CcAJ3_-Hou8

Not sure how you can say there is nothing wrong with burning hydrocarbons in an enclosed space.

> J. Kenji López-Alt, who recently literally wrote the/a book on wok cooking, would disagree:

Incorrect. He states certain foods and flavors will not work with induction or would be difficult without gas in the article itself. He suggests workarounds like a propane stove or butane torch, but he never claims you can replicate those flavors with induction.

The claim was:

> anything with a wok, just doesn’t work with induction

López-Alt, in the article[1]:

> But for most wok cooking, you don’t need it. There’s plenty of homestyle dishes that don’t have that flavor. For my Wok book tour, I brought around an induction wok cooktop. And it works just fine.

> People have this idea that you can’t cook on a wok without a gas flame. But most of the recipes in my book work just fine without one.

So I think it’s totally fair to say he’d disagree. Not sure how you’d get “incorrect” out of that.

Everything has trade-offs. But on the whole, for most people, induction is going to be a step up over gas just purely as a cooking method. The air quality and climate benefits are a bonus.

[1]: https://archive.li/h1UTf

That sounds a lot like the old "tastes approximately just like beef!" testimonies going around at the start of the last wave of vegan fake meat products. Yeah sure, some people might find the substitute to be palatable. But most of those you're arguing with have concrete and legitimate reasons to prefer a direct flame, so it's kind of silly to expect "close enough" to convince them.

Read the article, that's not what he's saying. And it's said by someone who, if you know their history, cares to an extreme degree about what the end product tastes like.

My point is not that induction can't yield good results depending on the dish, but rather that people who care about cooking on a direct flame will not be satisfied with something that is suitable for "most" recipes. I've read plenty about this debate and if I had to pick one I'd stick with gas because of the added flexibility. But I would be fine with say, a hybrid stove that is mostly induction and has at least one high-capacity gas burner and preferably another lower-capacity one. Unfortunately, few induction "advocates" are making the case for the hybrid option and most prefer to exaggerate its suitability as a complete replacement as well as the potential environmental and health impacts of gas, which alienates anyone who simply wants a flame.

If you're not happy with the approximation, you'll have to buy a 100000 BTU professional kitchen gas burner and operate it illegally.

https://kitchenambition.com/how-many-btus-for-wok-cooking/

That's disingenuous, Chinese households may have higher capacity burners than the average Western household but do not go anywhere near 100,000 BTU. This is reserved for restaurants. North of 10,000 is plenty for home cooking.

Oh, I agree that it's plenty, though apparently it's not enough to get restaurant style wok hei. It's also well into the range that regular induction stoves offer.

Cooking food with electric sources still produces a lot of PM2.5 from the food itself.

The article is about cooking food that becomes smoky, which is going to be a huge source of air quality issues even with electric cooking.

> only to get your eyebrows singed and a lungfull of half combusted propane

If that was your baseline then something was seriously wrong with your stove. Also, most gas stoves are natural gas, not propane.

N of 1 but that's never happened to me and I cook most of my meals from scratch.