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Comment by DoingIsLearning | Hacker News Reader

Fun story, Tempura was allegedly inspired by Portuguese "Peixinhos da horta" which was a poorman meal of fried green beans, that was popular during Lent. [0]

Of course as with many things in japanese culture they carried Tempura to a next level.

[0] https://www.bbc.com/travel/article/20170808-the-truth-about-...

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> Of course as with many things in japanese culture they carried Tempura to a next level

That is true. Although to experience the real thing you really have to be in Japan.

Sadly the Westernised versions of Tempura are more often than not massacred imitations.

The most common errors in the West are that the batter is wrong or, the most common of all faults ... the oil is old.

With true Tempura in Japan, the oil is frequently refreshed during the course of service and in addition is not shared with other deep fried foods. Both of which actions serve to maintain the delicate taste and texture of true Tempura.

Sadly in the West (if you're lucky !) the chef will simply dump the Tempura in the same deep-fat fryer that he's been using all day to fry god knows what else.

At least in Spain we have multiple ways of batter-fry our food, which are simply different and not "wrong" per se. For example with calamari you can have them "calamares rebozados"[1] vs "calamares a la romana"[2], which are two very different styles of doing it. And then even within those there are variations ofc. While Japanese Tempura is very homogeneous on its style all across, like most of Japanese food (quality might vary a lot, but cooking styles usually don't).

Then there is the point of oil, while we'd normally use olive oil in Spain, it's crazy expensive in Japan so surely they use other oils, which also change the taste and very likely make it feel lighter.

[1] https://content-cocina.lecturas.com/medio/2021/06/09/calamar...

[2] https://cdn3.misrecetascaseras.com/sites/default/files/style...

Do you deep fry in olive oil?

Of course, that's how e.g. Spanish omelette is done and how it gets part of its taste.

There is a grade of olive oil — "extra light" — which is very good for deep frying. The darker stuff popular on salads won't work so well.

I appreciate the Westernized version more for being delicious while eschewing the decadence, wastefulness, and snobbery of the Japanese version.

Fast food places in Japan are like fast food places in other places. They don’t make the snobby versions.

There’s great Japanese food in Los Angeles (and presumably other pacific cities).

Always old oil, wrong temp, wrong oils / bad oil blends, less regional variety as seen in Japan. Never mind the range of ingredients battered and ways of serving/plating it. Tempura in North America is dire. I’ve eaten at many Michelin tempura exclusive restaurants

You're saying there's not just one but multiple fine dining restaurants that exclusively serve (bad) tempura and you've sought them out?

no just a qualifier on personal experience eating around japan. there are almost no michelin starred tempura restaurants in north america, like 2 total in the US. the tempura places in toronto are all bad so i stopped going.

Wow - I was recently in Lisbon for the second time in two years, and I insisted my other half and I ordered these at a restaurant, as I had tried them on my first visit and they were delicious!

I described them to her as 'tempura fried green beans', assuming naively that the influence came in the other direction!

Related "Why Portuguese Food is Hiding Everywhere"[0]

[0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eiXtAPfMj6o

I went to Portugal and thought the food was just awful. It seems they exported all the good stuff lol

I can't speak for your experience but in the last 20 odd years specially in Lisbon, Porto, and much of Algarve the number of tourist trap restaurants exploded.

Reminds me of a friend's comment after he went to Greece on his honeymoon: "I've had much better Greek food in NYC."

The Indian curry vindaloo is also a Portuguese dish although few Indian restaurants actually serve real Vindaloo which you'll only get at a Goan house or an East Indian house. Only Christians eat Vindaloo really because it has to be made with pork, as it's a pork dish, and only us Indian Christians eat pork as far as I know.

It comes from the Portuguese dish Vinha d'Alho (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carne_de_vinha_d%27alhos). It's a simple recipe and tastes excellent.

There's a whole set of Indian pork and beef curries with Portuguese influence that are amazing and unfortunately never sold in restaurants.

Vinho d'Alho is actually more broad than just that dish; it can refer to anything marinaded in wine and garlic (which is literally what the name refers to, as stated in the wikipedia article).

I grew up in an Azorean household, and a lot of stuff besides pork gets prepped that way (or a permutation thereof)

Sure, the original dish may be broader, but the Indian vindaloo curry is a particular dish made with garlic and wine vinegar and some other spices. It's categorically not what most restaurants serve as vindaloo

There used to be more fasting and abstinence than Lent: "The word tempura comes from the Ember Days (quatuor tempora in Latin), the quarterly periods of fasting in Western Christian churches, where believers go meatless." (Wikipedia)

"The word ember originates from the Latin quatuor tempora (literally 'four times')." (Wikipedia)

See also: Rogation Days for more fasting and abstinence.

I understood that actual fasting was pretty much a poor people thing for catholics at least. i.e. That rich lords/merchants would just pay some repentance fee to their local church and could eat whatever they wanted (except for Good Friday)?

Is that what the Calvinists have been telling you?

It depends on time period. Indulgences weren't things that were for sale before the High Middle Ages, and then their sale was controversial. It was part of the motivation of the Protestant movement, and much curtailed during the Catholic Counter-reformation.

And then there absolutely were some (many, maybe) nobles and merchants who were genuinely devout. Even emperors, like Louis the Pious. I'd imagine they tried a little harder.

I mean... there is no 'one thing' any Catholic has done. There have been faithful Catholic Lords/Monarchs, and there have been not-so-faithful ones. Making blanket statements like 'actual fasting was pretty much a poor people thing' is not really a good description. Fasting is really something only the rich can do anyway, since if you're already poor... you're not missing much. There have been very faithful Catholic noble families (the Habsburgs come to mind -- many are still quite faithful today!) and they certainly did the normal fasting.

That being said, I've never heard of replacing the fasting days with a 'repentance fee'. I'm not going to say it's never happened because there have been billions of Catholics, and probably millions of priests so maybe someone did that somewhere. However, under normal Catholic doctrine it's impossible to pay to repent. God's mercy is freely given without money.

Anyway, that's not how indulgences work. They aren't a matter of "gain this indulgence and I get to indulge in something that's normally a sin."

Since fasting and abstinence are a matter of Church Law and not Divine Law, the practices can be the subject of a dispensation or commutation by an authority such as the pastor. For example, on St. Patrick's Day in these United States, when it falls on a Friday (as it did this year) it's customary for bishops to grant dispensations for the faithful to enjoy corned beef, or a commutation, to pray the Rosary and then enjoy corned beef (or pork tempura).

Whether any given pastor could be influenced by the money from a "rich lord/merchant" is left as an exercise for the reader, but if practically all his parishioners are tithing and paying his salary anyway, then what can you do?

Also Catholics are supposed to fast all Fridays of the year https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friday_fast

I had actually wondered if tempura was a loan word a long time before I learned that it was due to how Romance language it sounds.

They got it from India and then took it Japan.

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