I think downvoting that comment is stupid, but I also think the comment is wrong: Mastery does not imply incomprehensibility, but rather the opposite.
I appreciate the aesthetic beauty of great code. But it has a cost compared to average code.
This is doubly true for a language like Python, which occupies a niche of "lingua franca between users with wildly different backgrounds bringing value to the table by being able to use and change the same software".
So, to me, a Python zen master would not write incomprehensible code, but instead write readable code very quickly that effectively and efficiently solved the problem they are facing due to their comfort working inside the Python ecosystem.
(short but exact comments, inline testing, good function and variable naming, overall good use but not overuse of the standard library, functions very rarely more than a dozen lines, generally understandable code)
Why?
On Reddit, not HN: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16131314
I don't consider that appeal to authority canonical. My opinion is that downvotes should be used for bad comments, not for comments you disagree with. These aren't the same thing.
You can't downvote me because my comment was in response to yours. It's not an appeal to authority. It's a statement of fact as also seen in the implementation itself.
It is the definition of an appeal to authority to quote an authority figure as the final word on some debate. I've been here since before that first comment from pg about this, and no, I don't agree that it's a "fact" that this is "how HN has always worked", and no, there is nothing in the implementation that unambiguously makes downvotes be for disagreement.
But again, I'm not arguing for strict rules that work the way I prefer. I'm saying, this is a community I participate in, and I have my own opinions about how best to participate in it, which aren't necessarily aligned with the people who created the site 15 years ago. Other people are entitled to differing opinions about this, and can use the site how they prefer, but I still have my own opinions and will advocate for them.
I reserve downvotes for posts that are flagrant, factually wrong, or are otherwise against the rules. Flagging might also be used. But using downvotes to have a voice not be heard feels wrong, too. What was said doesn't hurt anyone, even if a vast majority of people around here might disagree with it. Downvoting because you disagree feels wrong.
Advanced != incomprehensible. Incomprehensible isn’t a feature of advanced either, you can be a novice and still write incomprehensible Python code.
For what it's worth, I contend that - notwithstanding what pg and dang said many years ago, this is the revealed preference of most HN users, because it's quite rare to see a comment that is downvoted, just because lots of people disagree with it.
This does not match my experience at all.
I disagree with this. But I can't downvote this comment because it is a reply to my comment. This restriction specifically exists because downvoting to disagree is how HN has always worked.
> highly upvoted comments don't get bolded the way that downvoted comments get grayed.
Highly upvoted comments float to the top and therefore have more visibility.
I don't think so? For instance, I can upvote replies to my comments, so it's not they have set up some "you can either comment or vote" system. This restriction is just a nudge toward positivity rather than negativity.
> Highly upvoted comments float to the top and therefore have more visibility.
Yes, but downvoted comments float down and are grayed out. The point is just that the two things aren't totally symmetrical.
(Also I think some of this stuff was implemented years after pg's pronouncement about downvotes.)
And listen, I didn't say "people who downvoted that comment aren't using HN correctly and should be booted off the site!". I just said "I think it is stupid to downvote that comment". And I do. It's stupid to downvote perfectly reasonable comments that you simply disagree with. Again, most people don't use HN that way, irrespective of anything pg said in 2008, or we would see a lot more gray comments, and I would have gotten a lot more downvotes over the years on stuff I've said that people disagree with, instead of comments telling me why I'm wrong.