VanMoof, the e-bike startup, officially declared bankrupt in The Netherlands
techcrunch.com
techcrunch.com
> VanMoof’s e-bike ad banned in France for creating a ‘climate of anxiety’
https://www.theverge.com/2020/6/30/21308117/vanmoof-ebike-ad...
I also suspect that VanMoof hoped to cause a stir to get more articles written. Their QA may be shoddy, but their marketing is on point.
When clicking on that link I was expecting to see some Italian Job inspired ad about their bike retrieval service. Camera opens on two slim but imposing men in adidas jump suits and dark sunglasses, looking down at an iPhone with a flashing red dot on a map. The lighting is dark, the feeling gritty. They look at each other with unspoken affirmation before kicking down a door in narrow European tenement hall. Inside the apartment is littered with clearly stolen bike parts. The bike thief looks up from his chop stand, VanMoof eBike leaning against a wall beside him, and makes eye contact. Without a word, the thief grabs the bike, hops on it and bolts out the window. The two men each grab bikes in some half-state of disassembly and follow him out. A bike chase across European roofs follows. Sounds of a helicopter above. The thief is eventually cornered on a rooftop, the two men close in, camera fades out. The camera opens now, to the same two men holding the bike, in front of another door. Except this time the lighting is bright sunshine, think classic happy retail commercial. They’re wearing khaki shorts and polos, looking like basic, friendly big box retail employees. The door opens to a woman who face is initially concerned, then upon seeing the bike, she is relieved, and hugs the two men. Scene fades out. “VanMoof Theft Recovery Service. We’ll get it back.”
That I could see getting banned.
Unfortunately, AFAIK virtually all ebikes on the market use proprietary batteries. Do you know of any that don't?
But this page shows several makers that use them: https://www.bosch-ebike.com/us/service/ebike-models#category...
Unfortunately for me, I don't think any of those are sold where I live (Japan). But a standard motor/battery would definitely be a major plus in my book when looking for a bike to buy.
UPDATE: Actually, Cannondale does market a Bosch-powered, roughly-VanMoof-grade bike here in Japan: https://www.cannondale.com/ja-jp/bikes/electric/e-urban/adve...
When I bought my last ebike in 2019, I wanted to get a model from USA that isn't sold here in Japan. Ignoring for the moment the regulatory stuff, I found that anyway the battery for ebikes was too big to take on an airplane myself, and too big for FedEx/DHL/etc to ship to Japan from USA.
I would have had to arrange my own boat shipping, which seemed like it was going to be too expensive, in addition to being to complicated to deal with while on vacation.
AFACT in a quick search, Bosch doesn't sell their ebike stuff here, but there are tons of Bafang motors and batteries readily available. Very interesting!
I think other motors by bafang have similar setups.
However:
>they can end up bricked in their basic state, since their working is tied closely to the use of the VanMoof app, and the VanMoof app will not continue to be supported.
This is not the future I signed up for. Even if someone hacked around their electronic locking now, that's just not a state of affairs that should be accepted. That is a version of "you'll own nothing" where I decidedly would be unhappy considering the price of their bike.
I thought about getting an extra battery now while I still can, but I (like, I suspect, most people buying these rather pricey bikes) probably don't plan to stick with e-bike tech that is 5+ years old. Since 2008, my 2019 VanMoof is my 4th ebike. And man is each generation hugely better than the last.
These ebikes basically improving at a similar rate as iPhones, and it's pretty great.
> improving at a similar rate as iPhones, and it's pretty great.
idk what's great about that, what's greatly increased is waste, that's for sure. Everything is becoming increasingly more closed sourced and short lived
But with a 4k EUR bike getting bricked, I'd be very unhappy.
They might argue that the hardware is still perfectly capable, and I would agree, but this happens in other industries too, mobile phones, Sonos speakers, Wifi routers, and all sorts of other tech.
Anyone who buys anything that relies on the manufacturer's services to maintain the devices functionality signed up for this, whether they knew it or not.
In the home automation scene, many go out of their way to avoid devices with cloud services, or opt for devices with robust local APIs; those APIs may be removed at a later date, there is a real risk (See Google + Nest), but that's a risk they take.
I hope VanMoof, if necessary, will open up the local API, and given the money potentially available from owners, someone comes along and provides a suitable service, for a sustainable fee, which I assume buyers can afford, to maintain the functionality, and not relegate all of these bikes to the rubbish dump.
It appears likely that as long as you have this info, third-party apps like Cowboy's or others will be able to work. But getting the info relies on VanMoof's servers being up, so if you have a VanMoof bike I recommend downloading yours ASAP just in case.
FWIW, I have been using a VanMoof Electrified X2 in Tokyo for about 4 years. Great bike, but glitchy software. The bike plays sound effects like "unlock" at random inappropriate time, and the app on the phone frequently displays useless/incomprehensible alerts.
But one of the good things about VanMoof is that they have an API that already somewhat supported third party apps, like this one[3].
So I think as long as you save your bike's encryption key and passcode, you're good. I don't think your bike will be bricked after that. (But it could be otherwise, because those details are needed for a non-VanMoof app to control the bike, and if VanMoof disappears AFAIK there is no way to get them after that.)
[0]: https://bikey-app.cowboy.bike
I can't help but get "drink a verification can" vibes from that. At least they're making them available to people.
That future can be very short. Cowboy is like Vanmoofs twin: proprietary parts, ridiculously VC funded, mountains of debt, more losses than revenue, no realistic path towards profitability, ... All that in a ebike boom decade. It's another bankruptcy waiting to happen.
My point was just that there are alternative apps for VanMoof bikes.
But maybe there is a more interesting point here. Maybe these Apple-esque ebikes designs that prize looking pretty and over repairability/interoperability have seen their moment pass?
1. "OpenMoof: Keeping VanMoof Bikes Mooving" → https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36769328
2. "Owners of troubled VanMoof e-bikes get their software keys from rival company" (arstechnica.com) → https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36769299
3. "Dutch e-bike maker VanMoof bankrupt" (reuters.com) → https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36768930
4. "VanMoof e-bikes is bankrupt" (theverge.com) → https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36768703
5. "VanMoof Bankruptcy Statement in Full" (reprehensiblecunts.com) -> https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36768413
But for me these features erred on the side of "nice-to-haves" and I ended up purchasing a "traditional" but more expensive e-bike that had the essential features I valued as a commuter (in New York); namely, more range for winter, more speed and torque going uphill, and a removable battery for carrying.
I had really hoped VanMoof could improve on these areas with newer models but it never happened. They continued to iterate on their strengths of beautiful integration using bespoke components, but didn't meaningfully improve any essential features at all. Currently, I have 3 commuter e-bikes in the family of different brands, drivetrain technologies, and price points. None come close to the level of polish and craftsmanship the VanMoof S3 had; if only it was better at being a bike.
Thinking more broadly about VanMoof's downfall, I think the commuter e-bike market might just too small and too competitive. Anecdotally, I still see about 10x more road bikes than commuter e-bikes today on the road, no change over the past 3 years, but the number of subscription e-bikes (citi bike) has skyrocketed.
Your requirements (more range, more torque, removable battery) are specific to your region. As VanMoof is sold a lot in The Netherlands, a flat country where people make short trips, the bike specification actually made a lot of sense (bigger batteries add weight and cost and removable batteries make frames more bulky).
An alternative could be Cowboy.
p.s. They mention they are "proud" of what they accomplished. In light of all the e-waste they have generated, I would dial that way down...
I know it's a common (and shitty) thing these days, but in this case, it isn't like the bikes are going to stop working.
I think this article sort of implied (without really saying) that would happen, but it won't. It's theoretically possible that you could "brick" a VanMoof bike by:
1. locking it with the VanMoof app
2. forgetting your hardware unlock code
3. not downloading your bike token/passcode, thus preventing third-party apps from connecting to it
4. waiting for VanMoof to be gone, so you could no longer get the bike details , and thus would never be able to use any third party app
...except that the hardware unlock code is only 3 digits, so you might be able to brute force that if you really wanted to (?)
It's possible you could get the bike locked to "0 power assist" setting, though, and never be able to change it, so that's why I strongly recommend all VanMoof bike owners to download their bike details[1] ASAP so that they can use third party apps to manage those things.
-edit- > VanMoof bikes, however, offload many of their configuration functions to a smartphone app and are much easier to unlock with a phone than manually
ouch
Possibly both but if you have significantly more customers than product you're going to run out of cash eventually.
Not bike related but I work with a UK retailer that has this problem with some high value products shipped from China/Vietnam. When they do get stock they start to discount it almost immediately, I assume they are either crazy or that their cash-flow is more critical than profit.
If demand exceeds capacity, as was the case with VanMoof apparently, cash flow should be positive so. Any capacity incrwases, assuming there is real demand, are also finacable through traditional means.
Unless of course, you screw up your supply chain, as a manufavturing / hardware company cash flow is to a huge extent driven by that. And yes, at 4k a bike, a company has an easier time staying cash positive that at, say, 200.
I don't get this. Why do you run out of cash simply because there's more demand than you have production capacity? I would think having open orders doesn't cost money.
Not being able to ship due to a missing critical piece (in this you could see a situation where they have everything ready and in storage but waiting on battery supply) is a real problem and can leave your business functionally bankrupt (zero liquid capital) while having lots of assets.
VanMoof released the VanMoof S3 in 2020, which was €2000 (the predecessor was close to €3000). The S3 sold very well because of its low price and great design, but its build quality was really subpar. In fact, insiders say around 10% of all S3 bikes had defects that required repairs (note that 1 - 2% is standard for a typical bike model).
So in the end, VanMoof sold many cheap bikes which was great for their market share but not so great for their margins. Then, on top of this, they had to repair many of the bikes they sold which ate into their margins even more. Lastly, because of supply chain issues, they weren't able to offset the repair cost by fixing the S3 issues and quickly selling many proper units to new customers.
If as a result 10%-20% of bikes sold need repairs, while still in the warranty period, you're not going to make a lot of profit.
I think they are getting squeezed and soon you will be buying Chinese brands (like Xiaomi) sold from chain electronics stores or their own website.
It has already happened with e scooters.
Seeing the above always worried me about van moof. Yes they were better funded, but they were still in the same market, plus their bikes had loads of smart crap. analog motion bikes are just single speeds with motors and a few nice touches - belt drive, disc brakes. If they went under nothing would change.
They are only suitable for riding on fairly flat roads. Which is OK for many cities, but it does limit their usefulness. They are what I think of as "novelty bikes". Sure, they are good looking and if you only need to ride around a mostly flat city with good road surfaces, you'll be fine. But a lot of places are not like that.
I got tired of riding low quality "novelty bikes" last year and got a hardtail with a Bosch CX motor. Bikes are expensive, so when you do buy a bike and, like me, you are going to ride it all year round, you need something that has "mainstream" parts. Because you are going to wear stuff out. This winter, despite cleaning my bike often (and using appropriate lubricants) I wore out chain, cassette, brakes and a couple of bearings. I rode 10-20 miles per day with lots of elevation both directions) just for work and errands, and on top of that I used the bike for exercise. In anything from 35C and sunshine to snow storms and temperatures as low as -25C (on studded tyres). More often that not the coastal weather where I live is wet cold and hovering somewhere around 0C.
Given my use I expect to spend $200-300 per year on stuff that wears out. The real question is how long the really expensive bits, like the motor is going to last. I fully expect to have to tear down the motor in a couple of years to have the bearings replaced and possibly deal with water ingress. But I'm not too worried because given the huge deployed base of Bosch CX motors there is already significant knowledge base on how to deal with problems.
If you want to make a good bike that can be a workhorse, you have to start with high volume parts in all the places that are subject to intensive wear. You need something that can be replaced at sensible cost and that bicycle repair shops are likely to have in their inventory. This is especially true for components like the motor. Within 10 minutes bike ride from where I live there are almost half a dozen bike shops that can service my bike. The closest just up the road, located beside the grocery store I visit every day. If I have a problem I can usually get it fixed within a day.
Choose bicycles like you architect robust systems. Go for good, well known parts that a lot of people know how to deal with. Don't get fancy unless what you can offer is significantly better under real conditions.
In this sense, VanMoof was never a competitive proposition. It was marginal at best. If you want to design a new bike, give careful thought to the system architecture. I think this presents a brilliant learning opportunity.
(As mentioned above, though, you'll need to download your bike's details while VanMoof is still alive in order to be able to connect third party apps to it.)