Hacker News Reader

Comment by quickthrower2 | Hacker News Reader

No parking brake is the one that gets me. How do you do a hill start? I guess you need to use the actual brake, clutch and accelerator at the same time?

How hard to fix the gearbox and retrofit a choke too?

View on HN

You get good at very rapidly transitioning state, or heel and toeing. Both are useful skills.

I have driven manual until mu EV and I don’t understand the hill start problem/question.

leave it in gear and it might not roll turn wheels so it wedges against the curb.

The rest can be done with footwork a d sensitivity. My uncle always wanted the emergency brake working for when the brakes would fail.

That was driving until the mid to late 70’s.

Hillstart problem is when you're pointed uphill, stopped, and need to start going. Without the handbrake, the car will fall backwards when you lift off the brake. So you'll need to be good at working the clutch, or use your heel and toe on the gas and brake at the same time, or risk going backwards into the car behind you.

Most trucks don't have a parking break that is useful for hill starts either (i.e. it is another peddle), so yeah, you just get good at heel-toe.

Using a parking brake to hill start is not the right way to do it anyway. You can push more than one pedal with one foot.

Whoever downvoted you have never heard of heel toe

Just because it’s possible doesn’t mean it’s a good idea. The hand brake method is much harder to get wrong, hence why it’s what drivers get taught.

That's how it's taught initially, but everyone I know who drives a manual thinks of it as a crutch to be discarded as soon as you learn how to drive it.

Same way we stop crawling as soon as we learn how to actually walk.

Almost everyone drives a manual car, except for a few countries. The vast majority of hill starts I've witnessed as a passenger have been with the handbrake.

We're probably talking the difference here between enthusiasts and non-enthusiast drivers. I learned stick so I could drive sports cars, and I've never felt the need for the handbrake for hill starts because I can just heel/toe. But my wife who knows how to drive stick but only learned because that's what her family had when she learned to drive and doesn't really care about it, always uses the handbrake.

Right, the latter represents the vast majority of drivers on earth. Handbrake hill starts are the better default.

I've been driving manual for 20 years and never heard of hand brake method being considered a crutch. Although I use it only on the steepest hills, I can usually time the clutch/brake/gas pedal to not need it.

I also don't use heel-toe - don't know what I'd use that for. I only heard about it on the internet several years ago.

I have a manual-transmission sports coupe (1988 Ford Thunderbird) and the parking brake is useless for hill starts. It's a ratcheting pedal to the left of the clutch pedal. Releasing the parking brake requires leaning forward and pulling a release lever on the left side of the foot well. I do hill starts by taking my foot off the brake and pressing the gas , and balancing on the clutch.

'88 TurboCoupe? I put a 351W from a '69 Mustang into one once. I loved that car!

Next oil change, throw in an extra drop and tell the car I said hi!

Most people use the parking brake for hill starts only for the first couple hours of learning to drive manual. Once you know how to do it, you don't need it (especially with modern engine management which makes the car less prone to stalling than old carbs, but even on old carbs, it's relatively easy).

This logic is always funny. Fun fact: Motorcycles don't have a reverse gear, and lots of motorcycles are extremely heavy. So if you end up facing down hill and something is blocking your way? You're stuffed. You can't even get off and walk away because the bike is liable to roll forward off it's stand.

Do you know how motorcycles solve this problem? Don't do it! Just don't get into that situation. How do you do a hill start? You don't. If you're really forced, you can try, it'll be difficult but often it's just easier to avoid the situation.

Just in case this puts anyone off motorcycles:

- Uphill starts are easy compared to a manual car as you operate the rear brake and accelerator using different parts of the body

- Stopping facing down a slope requires the use of the brakes and a supporting foot, same as a bicycle

- Getting off a bike facing down a slope typically is done by leaving it in gear which keeps the back wheel locked

- OP is correct that some forethought is required on very steep or highly cambered surfaces when leaving a bike to ensure it is stable on the side stand

> How do you do a hill start?

I never use the parking break for hill starts and I've been driving manuals since I got my license in the 1989. Not that I particularly want to but whenever I'm looking for a car that's all I can seem to find in my price range.

Back in the day I used to have to parallel park my old Bug on a hill and the parking brake didn't even work -- it's just something you get good at after a few times.

Though... my current car does have a "hill assist" mode that automatically applies the brake on hills to help out which is kind of nice.

Hill starts with a clutch can be tricky for beginners, but they're not a big deal once you're comfortable. Left foot on the clutch, right foot on the brake. Start letting out the clutch until it just begins to engage, and transition the right foot over to the throttle and ease into it. The clutch will hold the car while you make the transition. A little slippage of the clutch, but nothing outside its normal operating parameters as long as it's done reasonably well.

When pointed uphill, lift your foot off the brake and gas it while at the same time working the clutch. If you're precise with the clutch, you'll move forwards without sliding backwards too much. If you're not, you'll fall backwards, into the car behind you. If you're not very skilled with the clutch, you can cheat and use the handbrake, but you'll get judged for that.

I have a modern-ish manual (Acura RSX) and never need the parking brake on a hill. Left foot on clutch, right toe on brake, release brake, add gas and clutch together, roll up.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com