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Comment by FirmwareBurner | Hacker News Reader

Wow, I want to live in Norway now.

You can make a voluntary decision not to use these apps from anywhere in the world!

You cannot opt out of their scumbag data harvesting practices though.

You can't opt out of certain surveillance, even by never touching the surveilling entity. But regulation can curb these practices, like how GDPR did.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shadow_profile

That doesn't stop facebook to track you

That doesn’t matter in a world full of iframes, js sdks, app/site integrations, and shadow accounts. A company with the massive reach of Facebook or Google can absolutely track you all over the web without you ever signing up for or even directly using any of their services.

Can you also make a voluntary decision not to file taxes?

https://www.cnn.com/2023/07/12/tech/tax-prep-companies-taxpa...

I can make voluntary decision to not use lousy tax prep companies.

You can also make a voluntary decision not to buy products from a company that dumps toxic waste into the water supply -- does that mean they should be able to do it?

Just because you are not giving them money or you can choose to personally opt out does not mean they are not doing societal harm, and a democratic government has a mandate to minimize the harm done on society as deemed by its population.

Libertarian justifications are great thought-pieces, but ignoring the social contract is only awesome if you are rich and have no empathy.

You can move there. From what I hear, Norway has almost open borders and a lot of good social support programs.

Um no. Unless you qualify as a refugee, you'll need a verified employment offer (or perhaps proof of self-sustaining wealth) to visit Norway as anything other than a tourist. Very few countries have an "open border" to allow anyone to just come in and start drawing on their social services.

Interesting, even the US provides social benefits to undocumented immigrants

https://www.cdss.ca.gov/inforesources/cash-assistance-for-im...

Did you check that source you linked to? I did. (First of all, California is not 'the United States' it is a state in the United States, but whatever).

In order to obtain these benefits the person must otherwise qualify for social security and also be a 'qualified alien under color of law' or be a victim of human trafficking, domestic violence, or other serious crimes.

You don't get cash for being an undocumented immigrant.

Snippet:

* https://imgur.com/a/EfkryYN

> Did you check that source you linked to? I did. (First of all, California is not 'the United States' it is a state in the United States, but whatever).

It is part of the US? Is there any state in Norway that has similar benefits? (Love that when discussing good, part_of_US!=US, when discussing bad, part_of_US==US, but whatever)

> Did you check that source you linked to? I did.

Nah, I don't think you did. Let me paste the conditions so it s easier for you. What do you think point 3 means?

------- An individual may be eligible for CAPI if they meet all of the

1. Are a non-citizen and meet the immigration status criteria in effect for SSI/SSP as of 8/21/96.

2. Are 65 or over, blind or disabled.

3. Are ineligible for SSI/SSP solely due to their immigration status. (This means they must either apply for SSI/SSP and have a notice of denial based on their immigration status alone, or submit other proof of ineligibility from the Social Security Administration.)

4. Must reside in California.

5. Their income must be less than the CAPI standards.

6. Their resources must be below the allowable limits of $2,000 for an individual or $3,000 for a couple.

7. They must successfully complete the application process.

-----

You skipped the first one.

"meet the immigration status criteria in effect for SSI/SSP as of 8/21/96."

You didn't read past the first line. I specifically pointed out item 3.

> 3. Are ineligible for SSI/SSP solely due to their immigration status. (This means they must either apply for SSI/SSP and have a notice of denial based on their immigration status alone, or submit other proof of ineligibility from the Social Security Administration.)

In case you didn't Google further.

https://calmatters.org/california-divide/2021/02/california-...

https://www.santoslloydlaw.com/i-am-undocumented-do-i-qualif...

1. SSI/SSP qualification is because there was a Federal law passed which disqualified immigrants who had previously qualified for benefits, and the California law didn't like that and grandfathered in the people who got disqualified

2. In order to qualify under that law as an immigrant you have to pass the test which I screenshotted and linked to above ("snippet")

3. Your #3 above is just saying 'we aren't going to give you benefits if you aren't old or disabled so unless you are rejected solely because you got disqualified under the 1996 change we won't give you the benefits you wouldn't have gotten previous to 1996 and don't deserve because you aren't old or disabled

4. Your sources don't mention this law; they are non-sequiturs and they make me think you are just pasting the top google results that come up

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