Finland introduces the world’s first phone-free tourist island | Hacker News Reader

Finland introduces the world’s first phone-free tourist island

independent.co.uk

98 pointsthunderbong82 comments

This is entirely voluntary.

I’m not sure what this is beyond saying “if you want, you can put your phone away!”

You always had that option everywhere. Are people more tempted to phone if they see other people on their phones? I never felt that.

That's not how human nature works. The fact that the island is set up to be 'mobile free' means there'll be a strong stigma about using your phone there. Everyone will stare, some people will give disapproving tuts, and I wouldn't be surprised if some even ask you to put the phone away. If you're really unfortunate people who feel very strongly will be quite angry about it.

You need a strong personality to ignore 'society' when practically everyone wants you to stop doing something. Social pressure is very powerful.

The island will not just be a few signs you can easily ignore. Using your phone there will be considered antisocial behavior.

That’s a lot of strange assumptions considering you’d likely be hiking alone on that island and just met a few people here and there.

> when practically everyone

Where did you get everyone? I assumed this is just a marketing campaign started by a few people.

Yes, for the most part if other people around you are doing something, you'll be more tempted to do the same thing. There are exceptions to this (and you might be one of them), but I know that I'd feel awkward using a phone on a phone-free island.

Think of it this way: you can wear a silly hat anywhere you want. What effect would it have on silly hat population if you explicitly invited people to wear silly hats on your island?

It’s going to birth an empty fad, where every island is a silly hat island, but most people don’t wear one.

But anyways, why does it matter? Will my silly hat experience not be as good if other people aren’t wearing one? I’m wearing for myself.

I'm not so sure about something unusual becoming an empty fad. Medieval fairs are enclaves of the different, and yet you don't see every event turning into a medieval fair to dilute the idea.

A designated place matters for the experience: you can expect that the door frames and ceilings will be adjusted to accommodate your hats (i.e. no one will require a phone from you to do basic things).

You may also expect other people to already be in the same mental space as you, or learning to see the world from a new perspective at the same time as you are.

Half the benefit is that everyone puts their phone away. No other screens, selfies, browsing at restaurants or calls interrupting people. Everyone simply being present with the humans and nature around them.

Absolutely. Social pressure helps with self control.

It's true, I lost 15kg before r/fatpeoplehate was banned.

What I'd love to see is a drone free island. It feels invasive to have a drone hover over you at the beach and not even know who is filming, not to mention the annoying noise. When you look at a peaceful valley and drones are flying all over, it just kills the vibe.

I wish I could disable drones with some kind of device so it would fall down and its owner would have to at least look me in the eyes to get it back.

In all European countries I've looked the regulations of (Portugal and France), it's illegal to run drones without prior permission from the relevant authorities (in Portugal if it's near the coast, you need permission from the coast guard too), over people, and over protected places (which in France it's most of it).

This is great!! In Germany there is a map with the areas that are strictly forbidden (all private areas of villages and cities, residential areas, and I think all governments buildings and security at-risk facilities), those that require permission (certain city areas and parks), and those which no permission required (middle of the woods). Also the height matters, often only above 100 m is allowed — there is a whole ordnance about this which surely is constantly being updated.

My co purchased a drone and I had to test before shipping it abroad and I risked running for 1 minute in my garden area flying over 100 m. But then I found out that I could film our head office premises closer than 50 m height but not the streets around it. Finally I found that the parking place of the park could be filmed but not the park. All this was duly cataloged online with overlapping areas. In the end too much hassle.

When the drone was abroad (in South America) no trouble whatsoever…

i had a wifi jammer i bought from some chinese site killed everything in a sphere around you, fairly sure it would disconnect drones aswell, we had some fun times with that :)

Sadly, in most places (AFAIK) its outright illegal to disable drones which are even in (or over) your yard

A few years back, unstated on a farm with no electricity and I couldn’t got phone signal. As a result, I had no phone for a week.

I loved it.

The days passed more slowly, I wrote more freely, read more deeply, and spent more time being aware of what was around me.

How about you just put your phone on silent, and leave it in backpack? I need phone for maps, accommodation booking etc.. But on hike battery lasts a week, because it is in airplane mode.

Human nature is complex. Not everyone is as able to just put their phone on silent and leave it as you are. We've all got different levels of "noise" in our heads, telling us to do things, and it's not always trivial to turn off that noise.

So it doesn't sound like phones are the issue, but what information the users choose to view on their phones.

Because I lack willpower. For those with strong willpower, I know I sound like a lily-livered idiot, but it's easier for me to impose controls I can't easily escape.

An important point for me was realizing that free will is an illusion and that conditioning myself to respond correctly is more effective than trying to be rational and have self control. Impulse will act before thought has even got a clue, so the impulse must be trained, not the mind.

I haven't had a smartphone for ~7 years.

I love it.

I have a dumb phone hardly anyone calls, so often I leave it at home.

How do you do 2FA? Bank wire confirmations?

Never need Google Maps? No whatsapp and messenger to talk to friends and family?

I'd love to be smartphone free but fail to see how I could do without those uses

Dumb mobile phones still have SMS, so 2FA still works and since it is a telephone, talking to friends and family is also possible. I suspect the reasons the OP gave up on the smart phone was to get away from all of those phone apps.

You probably shouldn't use SMS based 2fa. It's much worse than the alternatives.

While SMS-based 2FA may be worse than the alternatives, it is clear that the previous commenter has decided that having a smartphone is much worse than the alternatives.

Unless their financial institution offers a non-smartphone 2FA option, such as a PIN-based card reader[0], having to use SMS-based 2FA is a reasonable price to pay.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chip_Authentication_Program

For wire transfer there are still alternatives although becoming more and more difficult unfortunately. Other things one can still do without a smartphone, and the benefits outweigh the cons (for me at least).

My mother has a dumbphone too. Sweden is soon shutting down the 2G and 3G networks so then it will certainly be quiet.

I don't have the full overview, but there are new "dumb" phones made that has 4G/5G, no? (Nokia 8210 seem to be one example, Punkt MP02 another)

Source for the 2G closure? 3G is getting silent in many areas but I've understood 2G usually stays to provide calls & sms in low coverage areas.

https://www.telia.se/privat/om/5g/nu-slacker-vi-3g-och-2g-na...

Interesting, thanks. How will they cover the northern Sweden, I wonde.

Me does too. The coverage looks better than expected for 4G though so we will see how it actually works in the mountains...

But is Edge still available then?

i suspect most countries will reatain 2g services as a fallback and for old infrastructure components

Pretty sure Lord Howe Island still doesn't have mobile phone coverage.

What could possibly go wrong?

Yeah, if they can't scroll tiktok they might die!

I imagine some people worry how they would deal with getting lost or being injured. It’s a fair point because so much now assumes you will have a smartphone with you at all times.

That’s why it’s nice having somewhere that doesn’t assume that.

If you get lost on this 1km island, just pull out your phone from your backpack and call for help. No one will stop you.

So what's the point of the sticker? can't put your phone in your backpack?

Encourage people to use the phone less. And probably also as a promotion for the island.

Presumably the point was getting on the news to attract a few more tourists.

> with getting lost

They are still selling paper maps.

This is so paternalistic.

You know what I love? Identifying plants, looking things up and reading ebooks. I don’t take many pictures, but I appreciate having them as a way to situate an experience in time. I am fine with this way of using technology in nature.

Let me enjoy nature how I damn please. My experience is valid too. You do you, I do me.

So go to literally anywhere else in the planet. This is a great idea I really hope it sets a trend.

They put a sticker on people's devices and ask them top pretty please not use them. Anyone can still go there and use their phones as much as they like. It's another social advertising campaign by 'Parks and Wildlife Finland', intended to be spread around internet forums and social media. Doesn't cost them anything, it's a clever idea. And some food for thought, you'd never know about it if you weren't online, nor would you ever have heard of this random island. Of which Finland has hundreds of similar ones.

I love the sticker idea to break habits. Very smart.

Right? We're so sorry that you can't stand the thought of other people not being on their phones in order to find out what plant they are looking at, but there really is a very simple solution. Don't go there, and don't be one of those people looking at those plants.

You write as if I'm foaming at the mouth typing this. I'm using the comments section to comment about something. I think it's dumb and I won't think about it ever again.

In any case it's not actually phone-free, just a publicity stunt.

The way that I phrased my comment was a little rude. I apologize. I was meaning to agree with the parent poster, but in doing so I was uncharitable with my interpretation of your comment. I shouldn't have taken such a dismissive attitude, that doesn't really help anything.

> For those apprehensive about giving up their devices, the “digital fasting” is entirely voluntary – the island has a fully functioning mobile network.

Can't you voluntarily choose to not use a phone anywhere? What makes this island special then?

It's a publicity stunt, like how Sommarøy a few year back declared it was the world’s first time-free zone. https://edition.cnn.com/travel/article/norway-sommaroy-islan...

Then there is no story

It riled you up, marketing strategy perfectly executed.

Yep.

http://www.paulgraham.com/submarine.html

You can do you at almost every place on the planet. Why can't there be one place where you don't choose to go?

The converse is also true: If someone likes to be without phone, couldn't they go literally anywhere on the planet, and just choose to leave their phone at home without that place they're going to officially encouraging them to do so?

Or is it about the disturbance caused by other people using their phones? ...or maybe to have a plausible story to tell the people who tried to reach you? ("Sorry you couldn't reach me at the weekend, boss, I was at this island in Finland where ...").

I can't speak to GP but I would definitely say that phones everywhere are a nuisance. Google "Ruined by Instagram" for plenty of lists.

I think this is a lovely initiative and I think it would be great if it could cause a bit of a trend.

The nice thing about places that were supposedly ruined by Instagram is that most of them were already overcrowded and boring anyway.

As an Australian it's hilarious to talk to tourists and hear they're going to get a bus from Melbourne to the 12 Apostles and back, which is an 8 hour round trip, but aren't planning to spend time at the rest of the spectacularly beautiful coastline or national parks in between. The most popular tourist destinations all seem to be like that: you go there to cross them off the list even though comparably beautiful and much less popular attractions are nearby, for the sake of going somewhere recognisable.

There's nothing wrong with going to a few well known spots in a holiday, but if you just go straight from tourist trap to tourist trap you'll miss all the most enjoyable things.

Your response sounds rebellious-teen juvenile. The place isn't meant for you then obviously. No one's telling you to clean your room.

To be fair this is just a marketing campaign some people on this thread seem to be taking way to seriously for some reason…

When you make belittling comments like you just did, it really takes away from your point. It wasn't necessary to lower the conversation into name calling (i.e. rebellious-teen juvenile). You could have made your point without lashing out.

This can be a pleasant community if you follow the guidelines and avoid this sort of name-calling.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Soooo... don't go there?

It's like that time my mom bought a VIP ticket to a Drake show so she could talk to him afterwards and tell him to his face that she doesn't much care for rap music. (this anecdote is a complete fabrication but I had fun writing it)

(your mom) "Drake! I don't appreciate your music."

(Drake) "Oh, I'm... sorry."

(your mom, nodding emphatically) "I came here to give you a piece of my mind. I paid $740 to get me and my children in here so I can say this to your face."

(Drake, nodding) "Madam, please... it is your right."

(your mom) "Well I didn't like it! I don't like any of your music!"

(Drake, nodding again) "Ma'am, I'm not sure I like it either. I'm just selling records here."

The point of a comment system is to discuss the content of an article. This is what I did. The likelihood of me going there either way is pretty small.

Sure. We're discussing it. We just don't agree with you.

No, no, no. That's too paternalistic. The poster has to identify plants, and maybe take pictures with their zombie phone.

Do they also use their device to block stairs or crosswalks? If their first reaction to this was "but I need it", then maybe.

So don't go to the island?

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