What planes can you fly without a pilot’s license?
pilotinstitute.com
pilotinstitute.com
In fact I just saw a Quora question with this exact question and the answer came from a 60 year old pilot that has been flying without a license for 30 years.
If you never fly out of a major airport where an FAA inspector can ramp check you, who will ever find out?
Please don’t do this.
This is basically correct. If your airport is small and you never get in trouble with ATC or have an emergency situation, you will probably not get caught.
However, if you do get caught, it is a criminal charge with (IIRC) up to $250,000 fine and 6 years prison time.
Or worse, you overestimate your ability and die/kill people.
I wouldn't take that risk.
If you want to fly a lot, get a license. If you want to fly a little, make friends with a pilot.
You can even get a student license with relatively few requirements, and fly solo (no passengers) during the day.
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That said, I do sympathize with people wanting to opt out of the FAA's draconian rules. (E.g. If you have been professionally diagnosed with ADHD, the FAA bans you from any pilot's license ever, even a student license. :/ Lovely)
Not quite true. They just need you to be evaluated where you've been off medication for at least 90 days. But if you're on Adderall, you're shit out of luck. Which is pretty dumb since the medication resolves issues.
Other dumb things that will/can prevent you from getting your license: AIDS, diabetes, obesity (BMI >35), anemia, depression, gender dysphoria (they more recently updated for trans, but hormones or surgery can make it difficult), color blindness (not that impactful these days, and there are many types of color blindnesses), and many more.
Side note: I was working on my pilot's license before I went to grad school. No problems, despite a history of depression too. In grad school I got diagnosed and Adderall really made a big difference (even helping with my depression). So gotta make the choice of being able to fly or being able to do productive work which I'm passionate about. Private pilots are a dying breed, and the FAA is only doing things to accelerate this.
https://pilot-protection-services.aopa.org/news/2015/septemb...
Six years ago, they added BasicMed. And they've been updating the SSRI list. But that's it. For years of work.
Why don't they just relax the third class medical requirements specifically? Only affects private pilots, nothing for hire.
Currently, the FAA makes zero distinction between health conditions/medications for a Cessna 150 and a Boeing 747.
1000% agreed that they should relax third class and how absurd it is that private pilots flying a little 2 seater are held to pretty much the same standard as someone commercially flying a passenger jet.
I had two loss of consciousness episodes very close together a number of years ago due to some very extenuating circumstances (and never had an issue before that or since) and was told I will never pass a medical to get a private pilot cert. Want to barrel down a busy highway at 70 MPH in a 6500 lb SUV where you are pretty much guaranteed to hurt multiple people in an accident? No problem! Fly an 800 lb Kitfox over fields in a rural area? No way, you could hurt someone!
Funny enough, practically everyone in aviation I talked to more-or-less told me to just lie about it and pass my medical. It seems like quite a common trend for pilots - the FAA almost certainly is doing far more harm than good with these oppressive restrictions by forcing pilots away from treatment they need for fear they may be permanently grounded. I'm certain I'd pass with flying colors if I just "forgot" that one detail but I'd rather be honest about everything.
My personal viewpoint: If we cannot show a condition or treatment is unsafe, why is it disqualifying? If we cannot analyze risk or determine whether a risk control is effective [1] due to inadequate data or pilot concealment, we need to re-think the way we do things.
Surface transportation (e.g., vehicles) has a ridiculous accident rate, but the public views car accidents very differently from aviation accidents. When there is a car accident, we blame the driver. When there is a plane crash due to a medical, we blame the FAA for certifying them.
0: https://www.faa.gov/ame_guide/app_process/exam_tech/item46/a...
1: https://www.faa.gov/about/initiatives/sms/explained/componen...
Everyone seems to have different opinions, no local AMEs are apparently qualified for this and I'd need to drive hours / fly to one that is. I'm apparently just destined for deferral limbo as the FAA can just defer and let you spend more money and time trying to fight it. I'm out thousands already and there is no clear path forward. It's really remarkable considering the things pilots I've known have been through (e.g. heart surgery) and then me, perfectly healthy and never any serious medical conditions or on any medications, gets the end around. Truly disappointing and frustrating.
I absolutely empathize with the significant cost associated with getting endless tests and deferral limbo (in part due to a shortage of AMEs). Pilots who have the benefit of really good aeromedical teams (e.g., through their labor representation) are better informed and more successful. We really have to weigh the cost and effort associated with the tests against the information gained around safety. Too many pilots are deciding they don't want to deal with the hassle, and ultimately that results in _less_ data about the true safety risk!
But even if we were able to make the changes we'd like to make, we still need to ensure compliance with ICAO. For example, we could not conduct aeromedical exams during the pandemic due to lack of telemedicine. However, ICAO does not even allow telemedicine to be used.
It's not for lack of trying. There are very real barriers that take significant time, resources, and willpower to solve.
Oh boy wait until you hear about automobiles. Gonna blow your mind.
The goal is not (should not be) maximum safety at all costs. It's a balance of safety, cost, and convenience.
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Come on, man.
Of course a 400 million dollar jet at 35,000 feet with top-of-the-line avionics, redundant systems, IFR flight plans, and professional co-pilots with thousands of hours of flight time is going to be safer than Grandpa Bob in his Glastar.
The question is whether a private pilot with an Aderol prescription presents a public safety risk significant enough to revoke his license. What's the FAA's data to prove that it does? Non-existant?
The goal isn't maximum safety at all costs. It is finding that appropriate balance.
I think they are trying to cut out those people who, when they don't get their meds, literally pass out.
Because the diagnosis doesn't specify a severity, all they can do is deny all diabetics.
I don't think, under the current way that diabetes is diagnosed, that these rules are especially unfair.
Also funny sidenote where I live: if you got type 1 diabetes before getting your license you are legally bound to report it, if you got if after getting your license you have to make your own assesment if you should report it (my not legal advice: never do that, it shortened the license from 10 to 5 or 3 years and puts you though whatever the approving person wants to put you though which can be extensive)
Often the doctor's office will try to prescreen to prevent this.
I have ADHD and take Adderall, and plan to pursue a recreational/personal license next year.
"Rare but severe side effects of Adderall can include emotional instability, psychiatric disorders and cardiovascular events. Adderall misuse can lead to seizures and death."
These bins are arbitrary and dosage matters. It would be perfectly acceptable for the FAA to require 3 months of usage, at a specific dose, wherein a pilot is stable on their meds and an FAA doctor (which they must visit anyways) approves them. You can get a good idea of risk factors and stability by doing this.
There are plenty of medicines that warn against operating motor vehicles or heavy machinery, off the top of my head some blood pressure meds like Losartan and HCTZ because they can make you dizzy/prone to blacking out. I imagine there's similar logic here for pilots.
I'm not sure this is literally true? https://adhdrollercoaster.org/adhd-news-and-research/faa-gui... and https://www.faa.gov/ame_guide/media/AI_ADHD_ADD.pdf seem to disagree, only that ADHD medication is a no-go.
I definitely know someone who is a licensed private pilot and instructor who was diagnosed with ADHD when young and has taken medication for it. (I don't know whether he had to stop medication and be reevaluated to be licensed, presumably he did per the above link.)
What?! That's incredible. If more people were trying to get their licenses I bet the ACLU would fix that nonsensical bigotry and embarrass the FAA in court.
Because it would literally destroy their career.
Kinda scary actually.
The investigation into Lubitz found he had been treated for suicidal tendencies prior to his training as a commercial pilot and had been temporarily denied a US pilot's licence because of these treatments for psychotic depression.
Whether the pilot lets you do that is obviously up to them, but as long as there is a license pilot in command, the FAA doesn't care.
> If you want to fly a little, make friends with a pilot.
It's a little bit wrong.
A drivers license-only sport license requires that you not have failed an aviation medical exam. [1] ADHD will cause you to fail a medical exam, and thereby prevent you from a sport license. But, yes, if you play your cards carefully (i.e. stay away from the doctor!), you can fly LSA/gliders.
> In smaller aircraft where you don't carry passengers and don't fly in demanding circumstances (high speeds, altitudes, IFR, etc), the margin of safety for the general public is much wider.
FWIW, these aren't really differences between what you can fly with sport vs private pilot license.
* high-speed (200 horsepower) requires a separate high-performance endorsement, beyond private
* high altitude (18,000 MSL) requires a separate instrument rating, beyond private
* IFR requires a separate instrument rating, beyond private
* sport license and private license both permit carrying a passenger
There's remarkably little difference between, say, a Flight Design CTLSi and a Cessna 150, even though the FAA classifies the former as a LSA but not the latter.
In fact, the CTLSi is significantly faster :shrug:
More precisely, someone who claims to be one online.
How about a kid who loved planes but parents did not or could not afford lessons. They found simulators and cut their teeth on 20 years of Microsoft flight simulator and x-plane. Then they fly with some friends who comment on their remarkable flying skills. This emboldened pilot continues to fly without a license without an incident. Why (in their eyes) would they need a license?
How about a drug runner in Columbia or Mexico who learned to fly on his or her own to make $10k per flight. Mastering extreme short field takeoffs/landings and abandoning the plane afterwards. Why (in their eyes) would they need a license?
Please do not do this.
That reminds me of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colton_Harris_Moore, but he stole the plane so it doesn't really count.
> Please do not do this.
Seriously, you should never do this. Narco subs are much more effective than planes nowadays.
Of course, if one has learned to fly, one can. And a license is just paperwork. But there is more to flying, like getting an aircraft, and getting insurance. Want to rent an aircraft? you'll not only need a license but also a check out. You don't always have to show your license, but sometimes they do ask. Also no license, means no insurance.
They don’t rent airplanes, they buy them. Sellers usually don’t check licenses. They don’t get insurance. If you don’t get ramp checked (random FAA check of pilot) or crash, there’s no reason it will get checked.
lots of history with older crop-duster or other utility-craft pilots who sort of passively ignore the FAA.
For a mundane example, consider your driver's license. You only need it because you drive on public roads and highways; a driver's license is a license stating you are competent enough to not ruin the shared public roads and highways.
Likewise, a pilot's license is a license stating you are competent enough to not ruin the skies shared by all.
Commercial equivalents for those licenses also detail how you are competent enough to be entrusted with other peoples' lives or things, but I digress.
So if you take your car on a drive on your own, private land, you don't need a driver's license. Hell, you probably don't even need to register that car. Likewise, if you own a chunk of airspace and fly strictly within it, you don't need a license and you probably don't need to register the plane either.
Of course, nobody's going to be owning chunks of airspace like that so this is all theoretical.
Also IANAL, please don't do shit based off what some random hooligan spews on the intertubez.
In California at least, you are required to file for “planned non-operation”, which is inexpensive but not free.
Nothing requires you to do that. In theory (sometimes in practice) a NOOP registration makes it easier to re-register it back to street use later.
If you have no interest in driving it on the street, no need for any kind of registration or payment. I've had race cars where I've left registration lapse, since I'm not driving them on the street it doesn't matter. I own (in CA) two cars right now for which I haven't paid registration in a very long time, as they are not street cars.
Have you done this? I have, multiple times. Not a big deal.
There is no process for "un-registering" a car in California that I know of. Just stop paying annual registration.
To re-register it, if you did not pay NO-OP fees, in theory you need to pay for the years you didn't pay to get up to date but aside from the cost, it's easy.
I say in theory because having done this three times, I've never been asked to pay the back fees. One time the agent waived all the fees, the other two times they waived all the past years except one. But if you get an angry agent having a bad day, you might have to pay more.
As I mentioned in a peer comment, I've owned many cars (and still own two) where I simply stopped paying registration (California). As long as I don't drive them on the street in CA, the CA DMV doesn't care.
This is actually one of the reasons that Phantom Auto [phantom.auto] started with remote controlling cars - and while they still do, they pivoted a lot of their work towards industry driving forklifts and terminal tractors that live on private property and don't need regulation on remote operation.
You can't however, unlike a car, fly a plane without having been taught. If you try, you may be able to get in the air, but the difficult part is getting back on the ground alive.
Granted, the amount of training required to drive a car pales in comparison to flying an aircraft, but it's not like humans can just drive a car straight out of the womb.
I don't think that's the reason. The reason is that they are unlikely to hurt anyone besides the pilot in a crash.
They can have an engine failure, stall-spin, or fly into a cloud just as readily as any other plane. Those are the biggest risks for GA, and they're no easier to handle in an ultralight.
Ultralight vehicles meeting these requirements (weight, single seater, etc.) are subject to NO airworthiness regulation by the FAA at all. So the FAA is making no statement on whether they are safe or easy to fly.
What these regulations mean is it is not a crime to fly something meeting these requirements (even if it was assembled by your crazy neighbor in their shed). That doesn't mean anyone would think it is a good idea, let alone the FAA.
In fact, unexpected clouds are among the top killers in general aviation with a fatality (!) rate of 86% - if you lose visual, you got 180 seconds to live on average [1].
Stay the fuck away from clouds, fog and other visual obstacles with anything that moves, no matter if it's a drone, a plane, a ship or a road vehicle, unless you are trained and certified in instrumental operation. You will either hit something you didn't intend to yourself, or you will get hit by something that could have avoided you, had your vehicle had collision avoidance systems (in aircraft, TCAS, in watercraft ordinary radar plus AIS - neither of which are a requirement in small vehicles).
[1] https://www.aopa.org/news-and-media/all-news/2022/june/pilot...
Broad Points:
1. The study was done in 1954, not 1991. 2. The AI, DG and VSI were covered. 3. The subjects had received NO prior instrument training whatsoever, typical for private pilots of that time period. 4. The study was performed in a real airplane, a Bonanza. None of the students had ever flown a complex high-performance aircraft prior to the study.
Yes, flying IMC as a non IFR pilot is dangerous, but the video/study is misleading. I can't find the original source for 86% but I'd bet anything that a PPLs today would not die 86% of the time if they flew into IMC, I suspect they mean it was fatal in 86% of the cases where there was an incident.
What IS going to kill a VFR-only pilot is things like scud-running under a marginal ceiling trying to press an airport because "I swear it can't be that bad based on the last PIREP and I have to meet Mom/Dad/spouse/girlfriend/boyfriend/buddies because X." Then they find out the ceiling IS that bad, they go inadvertent IMC, they freak out, and now we're off to the races. Maybe they wrap it up too tight trying to do a 180. Maybe they CFIT. Maybe they pop out again mid-turn and now they're lost AND freaked out.
One of the #1 rules of aviation is to KNOW YOUR LIMITS.
That said, as a lowly PPL, I think we PPLs should do foggle practice somewhat regularly especially if you intend to fly at night in a rural/coastal area. There've been a few CFITs into the ocean at a nearby airport because of non-instrument PPLs taking off out into the ocean with no references.
That means most pilots around here live a lot longer than 180 seconds if they meet a cloud, the 2 big problems are mountains and landings (if the cloud base is very low), there is no good training for that except things like AirNav Pro on a tablet with the right maps and 3D view but that is a measure of last resort, not a training.
But in the end I fully agree that if you are not trained, stay away from clouds and fog. I am just pointing the difference between being trained and being licensed, in Romania you cannot get licensed for IFR on planes up to 600 kg, nor are you allowed to fly at night (other EU countries allows it).
Holy shit, why!? Are these planes crashing into the ground? It seems to me (an ignorant layman) that you would exit the clouds and have some time to regain control.
I have no doubt that the planes are crashing, given the fatality rate, but why is it so unavoidable that they crash after entering clouds?
Edit: found a little on the link referenced: " often ends in an unrecoverable graveyard spiral or spin"...I guess I just didn't realize that there are unrecoverable situations (given enough altitude). I'm going to blame Hollywood.
People end up trusting their body reflexes that have evolved for very different situation and absolutely lie to you. When an airplane turns, the actual G forces upon your body are very different than, for example, in a car. So the body feeling we have that we are turning or going straight in a car, misleads us when we are flying.
When you learn to fly, typically instructor will have a lesson where they obscure your sight (usually something called a "hood"), and let you fly by the seat of your pants for a minute or two. Typically, after a little while, when asked, student will be certain they are flying straight and level. Instructor will then remove the hood and demonstrate they are e.g. in a steep turning dive - something that would result in collision if allowed to continue.
Airplanes themselves do not crash after 180s (in fact, most small GA airplanes are designed to level themselves if left unattended). People crash them after a couple of minutes with sight obstructed :<.
(the Instrument Flight Rating is similar in USA & Canada as well, FWIW - you need to obtain that additional certification on top of your private license, to fly in clouds. Otherwise you are formally and legally constrained to VFR - Visual Flight Rules. There are extremely specific details on how close you are allowed to get to a cloud in every dimension, when you are and aren't allowed to fly, and what you must do if you cannot obey. These are drilled, tested, examined, and taken seriously)
Sometimes there are genuine issues with instruments. As well, note that most GA airplanes operate their crucial instruments and gyros via vacuum pump and they need to be re-calibrated after a while even in regular flight.
But I believe much more frequently, inexperienced humans distrust their instruments and trust their instincts/guts/feelings/body more. It's very very unnerving for inexperienced pilot to lost their sense of sight, ALL of their body is telling them they're turning and need to correct it, and some 1972 vacuum gyro is telling them they're going straight and don't touch anything.
Other times, things just accumulate, little drifts and changes and influences. Let's say that you're in cloud and trust your instruments, but after a while for whatever reason your VSI (Vertical Speed Indicator) is showing that you're descending 500ft/minute. What control inputs do you provide to correct that, without any visual references? There are right and wrong answers and integrating the basic six instruments, building correct mental picture of your position and angle and direction from these very limited and separate instruments, without visual reference, for long periods of time, is more tricky for untrained personnel than may be immediately obvious :-/
I was practicing increasingly denser fog/low visibility ILS landings of the F-16 in DCS, on my TrackIR'd 32"x3 triple screen sim rig (with transducers for buffeting sensations etc).
With triples (and much more so with VR, I'll transition to a Crystal "soon") you do develop a semi/meta(?)-"physical" connection with the sim after a while.
At a point visibility got so reduced I would completely experience vertigo. Even though I told myself it's only a sim, just look at the instruments (and the F-16 has so many, including HUD with the ILS glidescope), my head would spin out and I'd completely bork the landing.
Only after several more hours was I able to do it (with visibility so bad that the runway would only pop out when right on top of it metres from the ground). It would take a lot more to get comfortable with it, but by that point I had enough and - I still have nightmares about it. :)
Can completely understand how cloud based vertigo in a real plane with your life on the line has killed and will continue to kill so many. Mad respect to the real pilots here who have mastered this.
Most sim pilots can fly on instruments without a problem, because it's precisely the conflicting information between the instruments and your vestibular system that makes it easy to get disoriented. Flying a sim, you'll never have your ear telling you that you're leaning on your side even though you're flying straight and level, or vice versa, so you'll never be tempted to side with your vestibular system.
In a real plane, just turning a tight turn and suddenly looking down on the floor because you dropped something can induce conflicting vestibular information that's quite disconcerting even in day VFR.
Moreover, anybody who can fly a plane should intellectually know how to read an attitude indicator. But it takes a lot of training to be able to trust that indicator, when you have powerful sensory evidence that makes you instinctively feel the aircraft is doing something that it's not.
See also: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sensory_illusions_in_aviation and note the long list of accidents at the bottom.
[Coriolis illusion] can produce an overpowering sensation that the aircraft is rolling, pitching, and yawing all at the same time, which can be compared with the sensation of rolling down a hillside.
Oh, wow, ok, that sounds strong indeed... I'm starting to understand it would be super hard, while vividly feeling like I'm rolling down a hillside, to try and tell myself: "oh, I just need to focus on the instruments, and trust them..."
It's hard to imagine just how strong the feelings are from our current position of at home and typing on phone or computer, but it really genuinely is your entire body completely convinced one thing is happening, while in fact something else is happening.
(Note this is part of the reason why even with full visibility so many people get nauseous - subconsciously what your body thinks is happening and what your eyes tell you is aftually happening, disagree - sometimes strongly)
Once blind, your first prio is to keep the speed and vertical speed indicator constant. The problem is, without artificial horizont you cant really tell your bank angle, and your feelings just straight up lie to you. So you think you going straight, but suddenly your speed starts increasing. So you think "I am prolly nose diving a bit", and pull to compensate, only for speed to not decrease as much as youd like (or not at all), and suddenly you feel you are pulling 3g, and then you notice your altitude is dropping like crazy.
Thats how you get into diving spiral, and worst thing is you still have no idea if you are spiraling left or right. Keep it up for few more seconds and you can easily exceed safe speed, which given the g-forces is much lower than actual maximum speed in clean air. And a second or two later your first wing decides to go different direction than the rest of the plane.
I tested this with my instructor once, where we flew into a cloud just slightly above its bottom edge, with the goal of "try to fly trough it", only to find myself spinning out of the bottom with exactly this situation. We were prepared with brakes, lots of space beneath us and cleared general area of other planes, and checked beforehand theres no themral beneath to suck us higher, but that memory clearly showed how unintuitive and dangerous flying trough clouds often is.
Mind you that level flight through clouds only works if there are no buildings or mountains ahead, and keeping a straight flight path is even harder.
Other times, you get your airplane in a situation / position where, when you do exit a cloud, you don't have enough altitude to correct it. Some airplanes have various types of spins you can enter that you cannot exit or cannot exit quickly. As well, people can remain very disoriented when they exit the cloud if they are in a spin, or they can panic and provide incorrect control input.
Think about cars - people can accidentally induce understeer or oversteer when they encounter unexpected lose surface, and unless they've had training and practice, they frequently will do the wrong thing even when they're aware of situation and problem. Similarly, people can exit the clouds in a stall or spin, and due to panic or incorrect thinking or inexperience or even lack of oxygen, they can continue producing incorrect input. For example, if you're in a simple stall and losing altitude - the absolutely correct thing to do is to point your stick/airplane DOWN, gain speed, and then regain control. But it takes practice and conviction to do that when you're close to ground and falling. Spin recovery can be more intricate (depending on the airplane), with stick, rudder, and throttle inputs that your primitive brain may not register are conducive to immediate goal of "don't hit ground". It's one thing to practice things 4,000ft in the air on a clear day with instructor with you; and another when you're 600 ft from the ground, your airplane is spinning, you can barely ascertain which direction it's spinning, the sound is overwhelming, passengers are screaming, and you're panicking :<
Even extremely qualified airline pilots have numerous times provided textbook incorrect control input in critical situations :(
As per my previous analogy - people without explicit driving instructions and practice (you must build actual reflexes, not just theoretical knowledge!), will overwhelmingly do the wrong thing when they understeer or oversteer a car - a machine they may operate daily otherwise and still have full sensory inputs. Flying in clouds / entering a spin is exponentially more complex and counterintuitive and punishing :<
If that still feels incredibly unlikely, and please take this in the kindest possible way as an illustration and not personal :), that's exactly what kills people! The profound and pervasive unawareness of how dangerous the situation is, and just how much your body senses will lie to you and how much following them will kill you.
(fwiw, note it's not "sum total of all people entering the clouds results in 86% fatality rate", of course - airlines go through clouds hundreds if not thousands of times around the world daily! But for untrained people to enter a cloud, especially inadvertently / unplanned, IS deadly)
And if the cloud ceiling underneath you is low enough, by the time you realize this, you may not have enough time or maneuverability to recover. Also, in some areas of the country, clouds have been known to conceal large mountains and cliff faces, which are uniformly fatal to airplanes.
Of course there's also Special VFR but I doubt you'd get authorization for that in an Ultralight.
An example of someone who lived to tell the tale:
http://www.37000feet.com/report/879711/new-in-type-private-p...
It is certainly possible (and easy) to become disoriented in IMC.
But every private pilot has at least a couple of hours of simulated instrument time and should be capable of navigating their aircraft back out of a cloud.
You are taught, if you have a competent instructor, to ignore your senses and rely on the instruments in such situations, as well as recovery from unusual attitudes by instruments alone.
I don’t doubt that people forget their training or don’t keep current however.
Also, there is no such thing (for light aircraft) as an unrecoverable attitude that results in impacting the ground a minute and a half later.
Any properly loaded certificated light aircraft can be recovered from any attitude if you have that much time.
It takes a max of about 10 seconds to recover an aircraft from any unusual attitude and reestablish straight and level flight.
A spiral dive (the typical situation with loss of visual reference) it might take 15 seconds since you have to bleed off the speed you picked up.
There might be some extremely low drag aircraft that might be a bit more problematic in that regard, but they are typically also capable of much higher VNE limits.
And yes, in theory properly loaded certified plane can be recovered in most of the cases. But it is not going to help you to know that recovery takes 10k feet if you are at 8k AGL.
If you are a pilot and do not take recurrent training or actively practice -in the aircraft you fly- on unusual conditions, you are actively in abdication of your responsibility as a pilot and should not be flying anything heavier than a part103 aircraft. There is a reason why even landing at night requires a 90day currency before you can land at night with a passenger. Being a pilot is not like riding a bicycle. It requires constant skill maintenance.
There is no situation you can get into where the aircraft is still intact where a recovery in a light aircraft will take more than about 1000 feet if properly executed. Perhaps in some aircraft as much as 2000 feet.
The only way I can imagine anything so extreme is that you are already at VNE pointed straight down and you have to slip the plane a little to slow down before you can pull significant Gs on the airframe. That might take a few seconds. But it also assumes you already have been in an unusual attitude for quite some time and chose not to recover until now.
> There is a reason why even landing at night requires a 90day currency...
With passengers. I don't like to fly at night in a single engine plane and I go months if not years between night (solo) landings. Granted I don't fly to unlighted runways, but in my experience landing at night on a lighted runway is not that harder than landing during the day.
> ... in a light aircraft will take more than about 1000 feet if properly executed. Perhaps in some aircraft as much as 2000 feet.
Many planes have been modified after the spin certification had been done. E.g. on my A36 I have tip tanks, radar, TN engine, anti-ice, ... I have no idea if it will recover from spin as expected or not. And I have no interest in testing it. I can tell you that I lose 500-600 feet in a stall. This gives me a hint that recovery from a spin might be more than 1000 feet.
Aircraft that are deemed incapable of entering a spin inside their operational envelope may be granted an exception. (Some stall resistant aircraft like the ercoupe or some canards, for example )
In practice, although many light aircraft are not certified for intentional spins, almost all of them are recoverable from a fully developed spin inside 1000 feet. YMMV with a large transport category aircraft however lol.
A fully developed spin is like a seed helicoptering to the ground. It is a stable condition, with a low and constant rate of descent. It used to be taught as standard practice for c150 pilots to use a flat (fully developed, stable) spin to descend through clouds into a known safe ceiling if a non instrument pilot found themselves trapped above a cloud layer with sufficient clear space below the layer to descend into.
Spins are not, generally, a boogie-man… but accidentally entering one during a steep turn near the ground is a really bad idea. I have more than one friend who has tried it , 0/10 would not recommend.
One possible exception is when you have floats attached. I’m not sure of the spin recoverability of a light plane with floats, never tried it, but I do know mounting floats on many aircraft effectively voids their intentional spin endorsement and sometimes requires the installation of additional vertical stabilisers on the empennage.
I’m pretty sure I wouldn’t want to spin my old t-cart on floats with a kayak tucked under one wing and a pair of rifles strapped to the other. Don’t have to worry about VNE with that outfit though lol.
The problem is that in a spiral dive your butt feel is like you are going straight and level, but your airspeed and feel of the airplane is telling you to pull up.
It will appear that the artificial horizon has failed (it will usually be indicating the truth, but it will feel wrong and you will think it’s broken, or it may be past it’s gimbal lock limits. )
If you follow your instincts, you will try to pull up. That will have the effect of tightening the spiral component of the dive but will not cause the aircraft to regain level flight. It will also have the effect of drastically increasing the stress on the airframe, which may already be beyond its maximum structural speed.
Recovery from a spiral dive is very easy… but you have to know you are in a spiral dive, and without visual reference to the ground that requires awareness and correct interpretation of the flight instruments.
You are in a spiral dive if:
A: you are going at an inexplicably high speed for your engine and airframe configuration (you are in a dive). Most pilots recognise this easily.
And
B: your rate of turn indicator is off center or especially, pegged to one side. You have to be looking for this.
Aside from that, a rapid descent showing on the VSI and altimeter.
Other gyroscopic instruments such as the heading indicator and the artificial horizon may be showing erratic or incorrect information.
Recovery is easy:
1: immediately pull the throttle to idle.
2: neutralise the turn that is indicated on the turn indicator using normal control inputs. Do not attempt to pull up until the turn has stopped completely.
3: gently pull out of the dive. Avoid abrupt control movements until the aircraft is below manoeuvring speed.
4: continue to fly the aircraft. If you are in clouds consider carb heat to avoid icing.
That’s really it.
I have only been in actual instrument conditions once with an instructor who was certified to do so under and instrument flight plan. It's disorienting. It's turbulent. Its impossible to avoid other planes (IFR the tower keeps you separated).
Crosswinds and rain and landing are basically boring after a few tens of hours. But fuck clouds.
Incidentally, I just learned about ultralights not needing a license last week and there are some really affordable ones for like 16K: http://www.uflyit.com/aerolite103main.htm
There are more manufacturers here: https://www.eaa.org/eaa/aviation-interests/ultralights/getti...
It’s also wild to me that some of these kits are build-it-yourself - they assemble the kit, test fly it, take it apart and ship it to you. I’m more than happy to build my own bike, but my own aircraft? That will make me triple check every step and still be super scared to fly it.
Amazing how people today let fear get in the way of enjoying life
Which means the decider is something outside of the proposed situation
This element is not present in the story as it is described.
They were not aware of where the ultralight was, but they were aware that it was missing. It could have been stolen, or it could have been landed at some other location.
Yes, I didn’t write the full history of the company. However, to fill in some details, the company ultimately closed after numerous incidents from being a company run by Kletus and his brother Kletus and his other brother Kletus (Daryl just doesn’t imply the same that Kletus does). I would say fly by night, it apparently they didn’t fly that well.
[1] Visual Flight Rules. VFR conditions are conditions where you can operate and navigate primarily relying on what you can see outside the aircraft. As opposed to IFR (Instrument Flight Rules) where you can rely entirely on your instruments and do not need to see anything outside.
[2] originally Notice to Airmen (now Notice to Air Missions if one wants to take into account female pilots). Notices that the FAA publishes about potential hazards or events that might affect flights. For example if some airspace is temporarily closed because of military activity, there would be a NOTAM to let civilian pilots know that they have to avoid that airspace.
Also there is no flying in an aerodrome and hopefully the person knows what an aerodrome is. Or near hospitals since many are restricted for helicopter air ambulances. Or anywhere near anything military.
I briefly took some flying lessons and there is an enormous amount to know both the flying part and the ground school part.
"Aerodrome: Any area of land, water (including the frozen surface thereof) or other supporting surface used or designed, prepared, equipped or set apart for use either in whole or in part for the arrival, departure, movement or servicing of aircraft and includes any buildings, installations and equipment situated thereon or associated therewith."
https://tc.canada.ca/en/aviation/publications/aviation-land-...
Yeah I wouldn’t want some yahoo playing around with that in my neighborhood.
If the FAA is unhappy with what you have done or someone else who is loud enough is unhappy with what you have done, they can bend the loose definition to fit the situation. Look to Trent Palmer for a recent and pretty public version of this.
(I'd also want to take a hard look at the design, parts, and maintenance before I flew something like this---but I don't really have the training or experience to do that. I know some people who I might trust to do it for me, but I think they all have A&P certificates. Again, maybe you can take shortcuts & skip the expensive, highly trained mechanic, but that shortcut may not take you where you want to go.)
In my opinion, general aviation is due for a little disruption. Basically current cost, rules, training and practices are appropriate for planes that are half a century old, have a combustion engine, and require a lot of micro managing to fly safely, and regular and expensive inspections to keep airworthy.
The electrical drones and more or less autonomous planes currently being designed by dozens of companies are very different in nature. Cheaper to manufacture (less moving parts). Cheaper to operate (less maintenance, electricity is cheap). Fly by wire; you just point them in the right direction and they go there. They are orders of magnitude easier to deal with for pilots. Less buttons, dials, switches, etc. Some of these things can operate without a pilot even.
There are going to be a lot of experimental planes with electrical engines and a small enough battery that you might even operate them without a license. It will take a while for these to get very cheap as the high end batteries with > 500 wh/kg still are a combination of very hard to get and expensive. But they are getting to market. At least two companies have announced they are shipping such batteries this year. One of them is CATL. Better batteries might follow in a few years. But 500wh/kg is good enough to improve ranges quite a bit of currently already flying planes. And it also enables smaller form factors. Electrically propelled para gliders already exist, for example.
It will take a while but the rules are likely going to have to be adjusted for these new types of planes. And since they are much cheaper to operate, there will also be a lot of pressure for the current ATC system to be modernized to keep up with the growing number of planes.
Maintenance is absolutely a possible issue, and due to their restrictions the engines are generally MORE needy than normal GA aircraft.
Interesting! How so?
> Part 103 compliant aircraft are meant to have limits low enough to be LESS immediately lethal, but they are still dangerous.
What do you have in mind?
Quite a lot of what worries me when I fly involves misjudging the combination of weather with the aircraft's capabilities & my capabilities. Time under the care of a good instructor helps a whole lot with that judgement: you get to see a whole bunch of conditions that are beyond your capabilities & struggle with them, without endangering yourself or the aircraft. And (e.g.) winds variable 13-23, 3G12 on runway 09 is not so trivial, even if your aircraft has a 15kt crosswind limitation.
Or---I fly gliders, and I've had it drummed into my head that you never ever fly between trees when you're landing in some random field, because there may be a power line and power lines are a great way to kill yourself.
There are a thousand things like this, that are more about environment & pilot than aircraft.
(FWIW I've flown power in the past, but mostly fly gliders now; still newish. Maybe that skews my perceptions a bit; glider pilots are pretty willing to fly in windy or gusty conditions, in search of ridge or wave lift, so it's not so uncommon that I'm standing there asking myself "sure, the much more experienced pilots are fine to fly in this, but am I fine?" This is really hard! I'm really grateful to my instructors for giving me knowledge & experience with which to make that decision, and for giving me good training to fall back on if I misjudge!)
As for them being less lethal, that comes down to the listed operating areas and the limits imposed by the construction of them. In reality they are just less lethal to non-involved bystanders; they will still kill their pilots quite easily.
It’s like other things you can do but maybe shouldn’t do, where you’re making questionable life decisions if you know nothing and still opt out of training. …though the people opting out are probably the ones who lack the self-awareness to note the questionable nature of that choice.
I did some GA motor flying lessons since but never really liked it. It's so incredibly noisy and do procedural. Gliding is much more seat of the pants and it's a sport to stay up as long as possible.
Also the low speeds and air brakes/spoilers make landing a breeze even out of field.
If I pick up flying again (I moved recently so I couldn't stay in the club) it'll be gliding for sure.
Aircraft are certified with a demonstrated crosswind component, which is not a limitation.
Source: I am a licensed pilot but not familiar with flying in the US.
If you want to know more the entire document is only a couple pages:
https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-14/chapter-I/subchapter-F...
For a regular pilot this is all just automatic with flight following of course.
No person may operate an ultralight vehicle within Class A, Class B, Class C, or Class D airspace or within the lateral boundaries of the surface area of Class E airspace designated for an airport unless that person has prior authorization from the ATC facility having jurisdiction over that airspace.
What does that mean in practice? I suspect my local airport (a moderately busy class D field) would not authorize a NORDO (no radio) ultralight. There is no longer a requirement for an FCC license for an aviation band radio. (That was previously required and possible to get as an individual without a PPL.) I suspect most class D fields would authorize the transition of a radio-equipped ultralight.
These ultra-light planes are practically big toys that you can fly over some empty field and relatively low altitudes. Powered parachutes also fall in this category.
I don't think having a radio license will keep you from flying into a towered airport. I worked as flight instructor in the southwest US, out of a class D under a bravo shelf and flew in and out of class B, C, and D airports all over the US just a few years ago and I've never held one. I worked at a busy 141 school. It wasn't and isn't required for anyone I worked with.
That's not true in the US, at least. You can easily still in be class E at 15k, which doesn't require radio communication if you're VFR and not in the vicinity of an airport.
http://vfrmap.com/?type=vfrc&lat=42.363&lon=-71.006&zoom=10&...
Look for the blue SFC (surface) with a line over it designation around the area for the airport with the multiple concentric blue rings. Those will be class B airports. Typically two rings and magenta will be class C. Class D will be dashed blue.
...Which is really sad, because it actually reads like a earnest author just trying to make their informative page visible.
You can also get the non-flying part of a private pilot’s license through them.
Badlands F1 thru F5 models are based on the old Kitfox Lite: https://www.badlandaircraft.com/
Merlin Lite is based on the Merlin LSA: https://www.aeromarine-lsa.com/merlin-lite/
Both of those are pretty interesting aircraft more in line with what most people might think of as a full aircraft.
The only reason this page is here is is to have more content for SEO purposes. The only 2 links on this page are links to other pages on the same website.
All it does is pollute search results.
I looked into it after being treated for depression made it practically impossible to get a private pilots license. The FAA would rather you fly untreated, undiagnosed.
Good job, FAA.
This was his first DIY ultralight build: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLAIipq7EZswtld3d8ttKQ...
I've flown gliders also which meet these criteria too and they need it as well.
I think it makes sense though. You can still hurt people on the ground and more importantly, you could endanger other air traffic. Airspace in Europe is too dense for people not to know what they're doing. This is why every aircraft needs a mode S transponder now too at the very minimum.
The military is another entity that operates aircraft outside of FAA jurisdiction. Even military airman certificates have to be `converted' to civilian ones i a military pilot wants to become a civilian pilot.
Australia is heavily regulated, which is good and bad.
Unfortunately, due to regulation and other costs; recreational flying - in my experience - is suffering greatly in Australia.
I watch a few US youtube channels, including the STOL groups, often in awe.
My recreational flying days are likely over, primarily due to cost. Cannot even find hangar space, in west Victoria, within my budget :(
Drones (also heavily regulated) and Flight Simulator are all that remain.
https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-14/chapter-I/subchapter-F...
Another guy I know who was in the same boat as me, went and got his pilots license in another country (I think Australia) and just flies here without any problems.
The FAA needs to let go a little bit, otherwise more and more are going to start violating laws because we are tired of the overreach.
Update: Forgot to mention a lot of people that are getting caught up with ADHD or Adderall can go get their sports pilot license but that restricts them to ultralight planes with a max of 2 seats and very low weight limits. The good thing about the sports pilot is it doesn't require a medical.
I have 19 hrs towards my private license, have flown 3 different lines of planes (Cirrus, Cessna, Piper), have a great understanding of aviation principles and aerospace science, and am confident I can operate in every class of airspace proficiently.
If a drone crashes into my house the only harm to the pilot is financial.
That gives the ultralight pilots a much bigger incentive to not do stupid things with their aircraft.
2. Ultralights have to stay out of cities and towns and can't fly over large groups of people.
That puts some more on how much damage they can do to other people and other people's properties than drones have.
Thus it had to be regulated to stop the nonsense.
It’s hard to compare ultralights to drones IMO as a licensed pilot
Wait until you hear about parents!
I haven't actually done the maths but I expect an ultralight is comparable to a car hobbyist in both noise and emissions. Agree that flying a jet liner for fun would be a dick move.
And I think the obvious counter is "that's whataboutism, you can care about lots of things at once" but I personally am pretty fatigued with just causes, so when I see people complaining about hobby aviation in ultralights I just see it as a distraction that pulls time, focus and attention from bigger problems.
All of this is, of course, completely subjective. But that was the intent behind the comment.
Also, please just get whatever license is required. It's not difficult to do, and they will teach you what you absolutely have to know when flying. A fresh pilot with a private license knows just enough not to crash and not to be a problem to others, nothing more really. It's very similar to a driver's license, where you first get it and only later over the next year or so learn how to feel really comfortable on the road.
- any plane you’re on board of, where all the licensed pilots on board have become incapacitated.
- your instructor’s plane during a flying lesson
Programmers should insist on more precision in their rule definitions.
8-bit?
That said, do so with caution. Flying is still dangerous and accidents will often be fatal, license or no. Note the provisions about "no passengers allowed".
One reason these planes don't require licenses is that the risk of collateral damage is low enough to be comparable to a car. You can hurt yourself quite badly while not endangering others.
So have fun, but definitely read up on the risks before you play around with aviation on a lark.
Growing up my family was into gliding (sailplanes) and I counted down the days until I was 14 so I could solo. Looking back, especially w/ a 14 yr old kid of my own...I think my parents were crazy for letting me fly, but I'm really glad they did. I have a medical condition and so couldn't reasonably fly power planes. This was before the power "sport-license" that is a good compromise between access for hobbyists and a regular license.
The comment about risks if very true. These types of activities can have real risks. It is sobering seeing a friend have a fatal accident. (With gliding it is almost always trying to make it back to an airport, getting too low and having a stall/spin close to the ground).
If anyone is near southwest ohio in the us....I'd highly suggest checking out Caesars Creek Soaring Club: https://www.facebook.com/CaesarCreekSoaringClub/
Compare to about 50% being the motorcyclists' fault.
So if you're careful and level-headed, small planes are a safe delight.
But if you ever feel pressured to fly into weather, then you will die.
FAA is federal in scope, so the rules are the same across the US.
You can get a student pilot certificate (allowing you to solo an aircraft) at 16 for airplanes/helicopters and 14 for gliders and balloons. 17 is the minimum age for a private pilot certificate and I believe 16 is the minimum age for a glider/balloon pilot.