Comment by globular-toast | Hacker News Reader

Comment by globular-toast | Hacker News Reader

Something I still don't see generally acknowledged by society is that obesity, type 2 diabetes etc are all symptoms of one thing: food addiction.

Food addiction is real and just as harmful as other addictions like smoking and alcohol. But for some reason we still laugh about it like it doesn't exist. We even welcome with open arms new products that will try to make us addicted.

Next time you see a fat person, frame it as food addiction. You think they want to exist as a useless, grotesque blob? You think they don't know they have an embarrassing body and their oversized clothes don't really hide it? You think they are happy feeling uncomfortable and incapable all the time? They know it's the food, but they can't stop.

Next time you go out, start mentally replacing junk food with cigarettes. Replace the "golden arches" with Benson and Hedges. That waft of carefully engineered and pumped out Subway smell with cigarette smoke. The advertising, the vending machines, all of it. Then ask yourself why people are obese. It's an addiction with no escape.

Food addiction is for sure one reason for obesity, but the last few decades or so of research has really challenged the “you’re fat because of personal accountability” assertion.

The single best read out there on the topic, for the layman like myself, is probably this series of articles: https://slimemoldtimemold.com/2021/07/07/a-chemical-hunger-p.... It does a really good job of laying out all the contradictory information out there in a normal-human readable format while referencing studies to keep it real.

You're completely missing my point. It is not down to personal accountability. It is due to certain sectors of our society leveraging the strong addictive potential of food.

Imagine confronting a recovering alcoholic with a glass of beer. Not just offering it but tempting him, wafting it in front of his nose, holding it up to the light to show the bubbles. And then saying "well it's your fault for drinking it" when he can't resist any longer.

We're all susceptible to addiction. Some more than others, of course. When it comes to food we're all descended from animals that evolved with food scarcity. We didn't evolve with refined sugars. What we're seeing in obesity figures is simply the susceptibility of people and ability to cope with their addictions. More than a quarter of all people are obese in France, a country once thought to be the prime example of healthy eating. And, guess what? McDonalds is very popular in France. Maybe it wasn't their genetics, maybe it was just the lack of McDonalds?

I’m not missing your point, I’m saying that addiction/over-consumption is not the primary reason for the obesity epidemic, and I gave you a series of articles going into a very deep dive on the topic.

Can you give a TLDR of the thesis, because on its face that just doesn't make any sense at all when obesity only exists in countries where calories are plentiful and cheap.

History doesn’t support the idea that we’re simply eating more calories today. Going as far back as the American civil war we have records of what people were eating and what their general BMI was, and there is no causal link demonstrating that we are eating more today than we were then.

To the contrary, there is evidence that we were eating more calories in the past than we are today, and that general levels of exercise are actually greater today than they were in the past as an average across the populace.

Honestly, read the articles. There is a ton of information in there challenging what we “know” that no summary will do justice.

Here’s an excerpt:

> A popular theory of obesity is that it’s simply a question of calories in versus calories out (CICO). You eat a certain number of calories every day, and you expend some number of calories based on your metabolic needs and physical activity. If you eat more calories than you expend, you store the excess as fat and gain weight, and if you expend more than you eat, you burn fat and lose weight.

> This perspective assumes that the body stores every extra calorie you eat as body fat, and that it doesn’t have any tools for using more or less energy as the need arises. But this isn’t the case. Your body has the ability to regulate things like its temperature, and it has similar tools to regulate body fatness. When we look closely, it turns out that “calories in, calories out” doesn’t match the actual facts of consumption and weight gain.

> “This model seems to exist mostly to make lean people feel smug,” writes Stephen Guyenet, “since it attributes their leanness entirely to wise voluntary decisions and a strong character. I think at this point, few people in the research world believe the CICO model.”

The problem with food addiction is that while you can not drink anhalcohol or not smoke, not eating is simply not an option. For addiction the risk is always that using it once, means falling back into old habits.

You have to partake in your addiction and food producers are doing their best to give you the most gratifying foods.

Yeah, in my experience it is definitely easier to completely abstain from something than it is to limit yourself. I think this is why things like intermittent fasting and low-carb/keto diets seem to work. They involve some element of complete abstinence, ie. no food at all at certain times or no carbs at all.

However, it's not like everyone has to occasionally consume McDonalds. You can (and should) completely abstain from that. You can also completely abstain from buying any ready made food at all (as wisely suggested in other comments in this discussion).

The problem is you can't avoid the advertising and seeing the junk in the supermarkets when you go. I find that I don't have to exercise any moderation at home, but I do have to at the supermarket. We could all abstain from the advertising if we as a society choose to.

> I find that I don't have to exercise any moderation at home, but I do have to at the supermarket.

I find it very helpful to buy all the groceries online (here this is being offered by supermarkets for a very small delivery fee, but the order needs to be substantial: between 1-2 weeks worth of groceries). Or, if i need to go in the supermarket, i have a shopping list prepared in advance. This means I’m not browsing; i go in, get the specific items i want, and leave. I pay no attention to the anything else. Also, i don’t go in a supermarket if I’m hungry.

> It's an addiction with no escape

There is hope through sheer willpower and lifestyle changes. Similar to stopping smoking. And it isn't easy. It is simple to do (CICO), however. I used to be 130kg. Now I'm sitting around 85kg (and would be better around 80kg), but the addiction never really goes away. I am forever aware of my calorie intake and expenditure. It's so easy to eat out of boredom and to eat more than I should. I have to police my behavior and preempt it. Can't eat junk food if you never buy any. But even then each one of those choices takes mental effort and will power to the point where to help ensure I continue fighting my addiction I've had to completely rethink my view point on food and purposefully try not to enjoy it. Food is not a reward. It is not a treat. It is fuel that I need to be active. And once I've had enough fuel for my current activity level, I don't need any more.

Not everyone can do this kind of introspection, lifestyle modification. It is a continual struggle where I've had to optimize my life around knowing just how much mental effort I'm capable of to manage my addiction. And western society doesn't make it any easier where you are shamed and called grotesque blobs for making poor choices in a system geared toward exploiting your weaknesses for profit. The most insidious aspect is that unlike smoking tobacco, you can't simply quit food. You need it to survive. Food should be regulated much like gambling is regulated or smoking for that matter. Otherwise, the sociopaths in our society will prey on people that literally can't help themselves.

That's a great summary of things the way they are.

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