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Comment by nhh7 | Hacker News Reader

vert.x is a great framework. but in 2023 I would seriously explore regular spring boot with virtual threads and see how far that gets me first.

Reactive programming introduces complexity, one which may not be needed in the future due to improved core tech.

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There's quite a few Java frameworks and libraries that will need to re-evaluate their existence (or at minimum, their core APIs) when green threads become popular.

Apologies replying to myself, but Netty, which underpins many of the popular Java backend frameworks, see backward compatibility as more important than supporting green threads.

https://github.com/netty/netty/issues/12816

It'll be interesting to see who (if anyone) picks up Netty's mantle in the Project Loom world.

+1 to this, reactive programming is a major pain in my ass. With virtual threads there’s no longer a need for them.

In general yes, but FWIW measurements point out that reactive vert.x seems to handle saturation much better. (1)

Also, vert.x are already exploring how to adapt to the new threads model. (2)

1 - https://gist.github.com/vietj/fe9f886d489853ab07111ba5715b13...

2 - https://vertx.io/blog/vertx-virtual-threads-incubator/

Just curious -- have you personally confirmed this?

Not trying to cast doubt... just noting that I have exactly the same feelings (hopes?) but I have yet to personally confirm it, in large part because it's not yet fully GA so we haven't jumped in with our production workloads.

Quarkus beats the crap out of Spring in every possible aspect, perf, DX, you name it.

hard disagree on DX, which part of it do you find better with Quarkus?

DevTools is a big one.

Not OP, but as someone who has used Spring quite extensively (6+ yrs) in the past and using Quarkus for all project these days, DX is much better with Quarkus.

Hot reloading (to the extend that change-save-refresh would feel like working with a python/ruby projects), shallow stack traces, less 'magic', , excellent documentation, plethora of modules, less memory footprint, milliseconds start/restart (owing to compile time wiring), first class container support, dev tools, always running tests are few that makes DX with Quarkus amazing.

Virtual Threads are still in preview phase. People will wait for stable release or at least someone to try in prod and give lightning talk or publish paper. Seems little premature now.

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