What’s Wrong with the “What’s Wrong with Men” Discourse | Hacker News Reader

What’s Wrong with the “What’s Wrong with Men” Discourse

conorfitzgerald.com

2 pointsbarry-cotter5 comments

That will still sound unappealing to many, who will feel “men had it all their own way for millennia, I’m not going to cater to their psychological weaknesses”. When I hear that attitude, or sense it’s at work, I begin to wonder what the problem we’re trying to solve here is - is it male unhappiness, or female unhappiness that men refuse to conform to as psychological model that is palatable to women.

The problem we're trying to solve is that the world has to change to be safer for women. Some men are adapting badly to that -- including the author here, I think.

There are a lot of potential solutions to that. But solutions that begin with "The difference between the sexes is the most elemental one that exists in our species" are always going to be fraught, because they so often proceed to "and therefore none of the problems that women want solved are relevant".

The solution doesn't have to be "therapy" or "talking about emotions" or any of those female-coded tactics. But the relationship between men and women is going to change, and if you continue to act as if it hasn't, it will cause you harm. Women will absolutely not accept a subordinate position in society just because you think it's an "ineradicable" difference.

> One of the other reasons men shy away from the discourse is they know before even setting foot on the road that the destination is Therapy. The true cliche, often quoted by Richard Reeves, is that women relate face to face, men relate shoulder to shoulder. That may be why men find therapy and the therapeutic worldview alien and unhelpful. Even the flimsiest male specimen has psychological needs related to accomplishment, strength, usefulness and capability; an atmosphere of unconditional empathy and unrestrained emotional disclosure can be poisonous to those things. Whatever the reason, men understand that therapy (the practice) is mostly just the medical codification of a typically female worldview as objectively true and correct. Most men aren't going to be interested in joining a conversation conducted in that spirit.

> Even the flimsiest male specimen has psychological needs related to accomplishment, strength, usefulness and capability; an atmosphere of unconditional empathy and unrestrained emotional disclosure can be poisonous to those things.

This is true if your sense of self is built on emotional neglect or denial. MANY people, of all genders, find that their senses of accomplishment, strength, usefulness and capability are in fact increased by engaging in emotional disclosure. Even me, a real live man.

Many men subconsciously associate talking about feelings with emotional manipulation, and emotional exploitation by people who want a different behaviour. It is rarely, starting in early childhood, about helping the person.

Without emotional discourse the social rules that people need to follow are radically more simple.

Apart from individual cases of illness, there is nothing "wrong" with men or women. But how we educate and acculturate people makes the difference between a satisfying life and long-term harm.

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