the solution proposed in the chat was to logout every device at once and delete my credit card so that wouldn't happen again.
I'm not saying your dad was lying—it's very possible for someone to click on a button like that (or even two—renew and confirm) and not remember it at all. My dad had a freaky call with what he believed to be Paypal customer support about a scam email, in which they wanted him to give them remote access to his computer. He swore up and down that he didn't call the number in the sketchy email, that he'd looked up the number, but on further investigation he definitely did call the scam number. My dad is a perfectly healthy middle-aged adult, but still misremembered what happened.
https://www.reclameaqui.com.br/netflix/conta-reativada-sem-a...
https://www.reclameaqui.com.br/netflix/cancelar-assinatura_R...
https://www.reclameaqui.com.br/netflix/cancelei-a-minha-assi...
https://www.reclameaqui.com.br/netflix/cobranca-no-cartao-me...
I mean, sorry about the topics being in PT-BR, but they seem to be doing that with a lot of customers...
Of course their cancellation numbers are low after the password sharing change - it's very easy to keep that revenue flowing if you're willing to borderline commit fraud to keep your customers.
Indeed. This really is asking for a lawsuit.
"I didn't click anything!" usually means 1) They're embarrassed to admit they clicked something or 2) They are embarrasses to admit they didn't read some prompt before clicking through it.
Even if the user doesn't remember clicking something, or doesn't remember what that something said before they clicked it - they still clicked it.
Think about it for a second. Think about how software works, how billing works, and how the law works. What you propose, a hidden re-billing mechanism, would invite so many lawsuits it wouldn't be worth it. Not to mention the fraud allegations, bad PR, etc.
Your dad signed in, was prompted with something saying he needed to re-activate billing to use Netflix, and he agreed. It's that simple.
To make the story more relevant for your point my father payed the bill at the checkout and I denied watching porn at all. He got mad at the hotel and wrote legal complaints to the HQ to get the porn money back ... dunno if he succeeded.
You were certainly warned what would happen, and likely had some sort of parental advisory warning you clicked through. IDK German law regarding these things, but in the US you usually have to manually opt-into "adult" channels when at a hotel.
The fact that you denied watching it at all really serves to make my point, though. Users deny deny deny... but they still did it, didn't they?
I remember that I knew it was a pay channel, but I thought it would go dark after a sneak peak unless I called some pay number for a code or something, like the pay TV channels on the satellite TV at home.
The most ridiculous thing is that about a year ago I specifically bumped up my plan to the more expensive one because we were sharing with some family members. As a result of them enforcing this sharing rule, we ended up canceling and they get nothing from us now.
Shouldn't matter, right?! Once I cancelled was not supposed to be charged again unless I agree to it.
If my father wanted to renew the subscription, he should use his card, right?
the renewal process should function as a new subscription, if not done by the same person that subscribed in the first place.
Netflix doesn't auto renew simply by watching. It asks you to renew the subscription. It requires conscious consent.
If Netflix is going to charge me money, they need to prove that I incurred the charge. They could do this by making a record of the date, device and profile that renewed. But they can't.
In my case they refunded the erroneously renewed subscription as a "one time courtesy". Like they're doing me a favor. Yeah, it's "one time" because I'd have to be a fool to do business with a company that treats me this way.
Most likely they do, and decided it wasn't worth fighting over this issue.
OP's dad, using OP's account, consented to billing. There's really no other option, unless we're just going to say things non-technies think, like the computer decided on it's own or something.
Netflix cannot just randomly decide to charge people for things. That would obviously be fraud, and Netflix wouldn't still be a company today if they depended on fraud for billings. Think about it...
And you'd never find a bank like Wells Fargo committing fraud for money, right? Because surely they wouldn't be a bank?
And you'd never find a company violating its own user privacy rules, like Facebook, because they'd surely be out of business, right?
And you'd never find a major phone company billing people for things they didn't have the right to do, because surely AT&T would be out of business, right?
The fact is: "most likely" and "probably" and your uninformed best guess about what happened is not knowing.
I'm not sure why you would think that the only reason that I would think that Netflix restarted my subscription in error is that I'm a "non-techie" (and ugh, what an odious way to try to dismiss someone) who thinks "the computer decided on it's [sic] own." It tells me a lot about your understanding that you can't imagine many scenarios where the interaction of a complex, mostly non-technical system of product design, business decisionmakers, microservice integrations, several apps on hundreds of distinct platforms might behave in an unexpected way that treats consumers unfairly, with varying levels of intention or neglect at different layers.
As the consumer, I'm getting charged the money and I'm the one who needs the justification to indicate that it was authorized. I disagree with your perspective that "Well, they're a 'company', therefore they must have a good reason to charge me, I better pay it".
I do, in fact, think it's "most likely" that someone did... something... on a logged-in device that restarted the subscription. However, I think it's very unlikely that that involved presenting a new billing agreement that they agreed to, or providing the password to my account (remember, this is a subscription that was cancelled, not suspended or paused or frozen or any other kind of seemingly-temporary measure--since Netflix doesn't offer a way to remove accounts, it's the strongest thing I can do to sever my business relationship with them). If the logic is unintentional: an edge case of a logged-in device where that particular app on that platform sent the wrong cookie when starting a stream, etc., then Netflix not caring to investigate and solve it is because they're happy to collect revenue from erroneous and unjustified subscriptions in the hope that consumers won't notice or fight it; which is gross. If the logic is intentional: to obscure the fact that whatever action the user takes results in a re-subscription; then it's gross and possibly illegal (dunno, not a lawyer, and my definition of "crooked" might include things that aren't yet against the law). Either way, they are likely to keep doing it until forced to stop, because your naïve perspective that companies can never do anything wrong is absolutely incorrect.
I do want to correct something I said. You said that Netflix doesn't really know it's you. My response was that you gave your dad access but I realize I was wrong about that because people in your own house have access to logged in devices which is allowed normally.
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The difference between authentication (your account) and authorization (your streaming plan) is the first issue here they are separate and for good reason. There actually is a way is a way to delete your account [2]. Even if you don't do this it is automatically deleted after 10 months. Why don't they delete your account when you cancel the subscription?
Think of how annoying it would be if your subscription and account were one in the same, considering your account holds viewer data, watchlists, profiles, etc. Here's some scenarios:
1. Payment fails because you went over the limit on your credit card or it expired.
2. You want to cancel for two months and then reactivate (I knew someone who did this every few months to save money)
3. You change your mind after canceling
4. Canceled by accident
5. Someone else who has access cancels
Why not lock the account?
How do you unlock it? Calling them is time consuming and expensive for everyone. They could require the password to be reentered but many people who share Netflix accounts give out the password as well so that's not really a global solution (I assume you didn't). Maybe a support email? or chat support system? Both are time consuming and also money for them.
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The fault is 40% you, 50% your dad, and 10% Netflix keeping it easy for business reasons.
- You should have told your family that you were canceling Netflix, wouldn't they have bothered you anyway if it suddenly didn't work? (assuming Netflix did wipe everything)
- Your dad should have contacted you when he was prompted. I know mine would if he saw something about a subscription being reactivated.
- You could have changed the password of the account
- You could have invalidated all the existing sessions (assuming he didn't have the password)
- Finally, delete the account as well per their instructions
Those last three are all stated in their FAQ about preventing reactivation of accounts and how to delete your account.
Is it fraud on their part? No, nor is it deception just because they only asked your dad to reactivate a subscription instead of also saying "This will incur costs of $19.99 a month.." I will agree with you they could have automatically invalidated all the sessions when you cancel a subscription but you had options.
Finally you were refunded after contacting them. Did they hassle you? How long did it take? You said "...then Netflix not caring to investigate " was the reason they refunded you quickly. They didn't investigate it because they have good customer service. As a subscription service they want you to be happy and, even if you cancel, you might consider coming back. Starting an investigation for one months fee isn't worth it.
On Hackernews we often discuss services where it's difficult to cancel. There are even some where you have to call like the NY times. This isn't the case for both the Netflix subscription AND the Netflix account. Both can be deleted using the app without interacting with a person.
[1] https://help.netflix.com/en/node/407 [2]https://help.netflix.com/en/node/126558
Did you think you were replying to OP? I'm not OP, my dad is not involved.
Yeah if I stay in my apartment after my lease expires my landlord is gonna charge me rent. Obviously, Netflix shouldn’t have let you in, but…
> I have talked to my father, he did not clicked anything.
I learned long ago not to trust technological recollections coming from my parents.
Ironically, Netflix was actually right about password sharing: someone else with your login credentials can do whatever they want. For all you know your dad is mad that he’s losing Netflix and hit the renew button.
Of course, it would be nice if Netflix would create a family sharing mechanism like Apple and Google have.
If you stay a day past your lease your landlord can charge you the next month’s rent.
If you take a wrong turn and accidentally enter a toll highway you’ll get charged a toll, automatically in many places.
If you forget to turn your faucet off you’ll pay for water and sewer usage even if you said you didn’t need the water.
I’m not defending Netflix for willingly making the process this way, but at the same time individuals also have the responsibility to follow some basic instructions and stop using things that they want to cancel.
If I say “that’s so hot” I can be talking about sexual intercourse or my microwaved hot pocket.
Same words, different intent, different meaning.
Netflix being wrong and the customer being wrong are not mutually exclusive. At some point it has to be acknowledged that adults are responsible for navigating the world and paying attention.