Dutch E-Bike startup VanMoof unable to pay the bills
techcrunch.com
techcrunch.com
(The official VanMoof app, which bicycle owners use to unlock their bicycle, is not available to all customers either.)
Yet another reminder that you'll never actually own something which depends on an app or the company behind it existing. For context: VanMoof bicycles are pretty much on the premium side of the spectrum.
1: https://www.nrc.nl/nieuws/2023/07/12/uitstel-van-betaling-vo...
"With this tool, we want to make sure everyone can use their VanMoof even after these servers become unreachable - preventing e-waste."
Doing that, even OTA updates become unnecessary. Goesbfor cars, and even more so for bicycles, e- or otherwise... What's next, connect with Googpe / Facebook to use the bathroom?
Good ridance for VanMoof, if everything you have is hippster marketing, that's what will ultimately happen.
> And if something isn't connected to the internet, and working just fine within spec, you don't even need to update the firmware.
Yes but you always want to have option open, bugs happen
This is the perception many people have but they're actually a bit cheaper than the average ebike, starting at €2200 when you would expect to pay about €2500 for most ebikes.
Plus as an all-Chinese bike I'd want to read some long-term reliability reports before buying.
https://electroheads.com/collections/all-electric-bikes?filt...
However in the last few years a lot has changed, and in no small part thanks to Van Moof. There are now plenty of competitors on the market that are more affordable, use more standard and more easily replaceable parts and have higher build quality. The Van Moof S3 has only gone up in price, while no changes have been made to address it's flaws.
So when I bought my S3 bike in 2020 it was a reasonable choice, even though I was well aware of the quality issues. And though almost every part on my bike has been replaced at least once (at no cost to me), I have no regrets of my choice back then; there were practically no alternatives back then.
But my next bike will surely not be a Van Moof. The brand has served it's purpose, popularising e-bikes for non-pensioners. But they made a few costly design mistakes, and instead of backtracking they doubled down.
In my opinion the automatic electric shifter without a pedal-force sensor is the main flaw. You can't control the shift moment (I guess because manual shift buttons would interfere with the design). The hub gear is not designed for shifting under load, so sooner or later it will break as the auto shifter chooses just the wrong moment.
Also due to the lack of a pedal-force sensor, shifting is only based on speed. When going up a hill or with heavy head wind, I would prefer to ride in a lower gear. This requires opening up the app and change the shifting profile. No thank you!
TLDR: Either manually controlled shifting or a inclusion of pedal force sensor would have solved 90% procent of the issues with the bike. Refusing to acknowledge such a basic design mistake is a god reason to go bankrupt. So thanks for the effort, but this is the market working as it is supposed to do. Bye bye Van Moof, good riddance
Every part replaced over a 3 year period? I can see how they're going bankrupt.
Most of these were in the first year and a half. I think the only commonly failing part that is still original is the kick-lock. Interestingly I have never heard complaints or had issues with the actual electric motor.
We really need some electronic waste law for Internet of Shit devices that forces offline functionality or self hosted functionality.
Edit: There seem to be a backup unlock method with the bell, but I guess it is not very convenient compared to the app or a good old key.
I ended up going with juiced instead for less than half the price because it's pretty much all easily maintainable parts you can source yourself if need be. Lectric is great for that too.
(I don't think they're actually more aggressive than other cyclists in Amsterdam. I mean, that's a very high bar. They might even be more polite. And yet, they seem to have acquired that reputation.)
> But it seems that the resentment is nowadays more a directed at fat-bikes (Rad Powerbike lookalikes).
Weirdly, I don't actually mind them that much. They're awful of course, but I don't see them as replacements for bikes, but as replacements for scooters/mopeds. And those are a lot more awful. So I rather see people on a fat e-bike than on a dirty fume spewing scooter.
(Angry customers can't pick up the bikes that they'd brought in for repair.)
This is particularly nasty. Not only do they lose access to repairs and other services (like unlocking), some people have already lost their entire bike. If the company isn't already bankrupt, it'd be nice if they could at least finish the repairs that are in progress, and return all the bikes to the customers (I hesitate to call them "owners").
Of course that's a problem that can occur with any bankrupt repair service. The designed lock-in making customers dependent on a bankruptable company for everything from repairs to unlocking their bike, is more unique to this business model, but it should be a big warning against these lock-in driven business models that make customers too dependent on a single company.
It's of course tempting to trust and believe that companies never go bankrupt, but they do.
The court assigns an administrator who, if effective, will work with what there is.. The bikes many people get back may be worthless as many parts were apparently custom so there are no other shops to complete the unfinished repairs.
We bought a 5 bar Leaf [NewZeroland] https://youtu.be/4aBYJps_5ek?t=176
>one of the main issues with VanMoof’s bikes is that they are custom designed from the ground up
service
>The first of these means it’s virtually impossible for anyone to repair a VanMoof bike themselves
and reliability
>The company has been facing a huge backlash for its models, not least because its bikes appear to be less than robust.
take a huge hit.
And for most teams, it’s really hard to get service and reliability correct out of the gate.
Multiply it by your entire product with its own interdependencies and VanMoof’s fate is very probable.
The frame, certainly - it has integrated lights and I presume other electronics. I wonder though (and doubt that) about the other components, which are easily sourced and likely off the shelf.
Designing a custom frame for a bicycle isn't uncommon or a bad idea. These bikes are also pretty common here in Europe and they do look good. They're popular, and recogniseable.
The promise being an all-in-one system you barely have to maintain. That isn't a bad or unfair proposition. So it's a shame the company seems to have been badly run.
The linked Reddit post - https://www.reddit.com/r/vanmoofbicycle/comments/14wexfl/la_... - particularly a habit of throwing things out rather than repairing them, and hiring inexperienced staff - might explain quite a bit of this.
Mechanical products like these basically need one thing: high quality parts. A 1/10 record of returns for repair seems like it's the root.
It's a very traditional failure mode for overly ambitious people: after having a string of successes in the good times, they forget that there can also be bad times and so they take incredible risks because they cannot imagine failure anymore.
Tech company? I thought they were a fashion brand.
They are competing with bike manufacturers, which call themselves bike manufacturers and these manufacturers have been producing decent e-bikes for decades now.
VanMoof is a fashion brand for hipsters. Always was.
It was an OK bike. It looked great, I liked the integrated lights and the chain that hid in the frame was amazing (really practical if you lock your bike multiple times a day).
When switching to an E-bike, I decided to go with a Batavus Quip extra cargo e-go, and the main reason was that it looked like a fairly standard bike built from reasonably standard components. Which meant easier servicing. It also has a "bottle-type" bosch battery, which means I can pick it up and charge at the office. I don't know why e-bike manufacturers assume that I have an electrical outlet available right where I park my bike.
I looked at newer VanMoof models and they looked great, but I was increasingly worried about the "smart" features and becoming dependent on them — as it turns out, I was right.
Although it looked good, I was also surprised by how jerky the peddle assist was as well as the non-removable battery.
Expecting users to lug a big e-bike up into their tiny Japanese apartment to charge every day doesn’t sound great.
Being at the mercy of a remote company 5 countries over that has no serious presence in your city to maintain/fix/ship your 3000€ bike is simply a terrible idea.
Hope that traffic police one day starts coming down hard on this.
Many years ago (I've been a motorcyclist since I was 16), I saw the result of falling off without safety gear. Even at 30 the results of human-tarmac contact is pretty horrible. Even faster and it doesn't bear thinking about.
The design is not as sleek as the VanMoof ones but I do like the ones I saw in person so far.
They send the service technician to you. Saw it first hand - the service person came in a van that had all the tools and replacement parts. Not sure if it is better cost wise for them than having a workshop. Also not sure how well it'll scale.
I've also seen local shops help with minor repair (like seat change), but I doubt they'll be able to help with something more extensive with the drivetrain or battery.
I never got a Vanmoof because the version I test rode (an older model from a couple of years ago) jerked/made a distinct noise when it'd switch gears. Also, don't have room to plug the whole bike somewhere. Detachable battery was a must have for me.
Currently browsing more established bike brands here like Batavus and Gazelle. They are not as sleek, but are trying. I wonder if Vanmoof might have poisoned the well for smaller startups in this space. I'd definitely be wary of giving this kind of money to a non-established brand.
Over the past few years I kept hearing there are issues with the bikes but I imagined such issues will be obviously addressed. Instead, they started expanding internationally (I read in comments they even had a presence in Japan!) while angry customers dealt with issues at home.
Really disappointed and a big reminder to prioritise product quality over growth at all costs. Vanmoof's desire to prematurely dominate the market turned into a fatal loss for all parties involved.
A pedelec is limited to 250W in most of the EU and UK, which goes back to my first point.
Does it need be, and is it even possible for it, to be registered? I understood 2002/24/EC limited it to 250W for it to be legal unregistered pedelec, but member states didn't seem to provide a way of it being registered, as they didn't have the correct vehicle classifications for them, which means there was no legal way to use an ebike above 250W. I'd love to be wrong!