Mac shipments grow 10%, as all major PC brands see downturns
9to5mac.com
9to5mac.com
Aside from yet another revamp of the settings menus it feels more or less like windows. The gripes about the start bar and start menu are valid but fixable.
Only thing is closing down some widgits the first time that I never saw again and uninstalling a few applications.
Launcher ads. Live desktop ads. News ads. Weather ads. Settings page ads. Game bar ads. Lock screen ads.
I turn them off as I run across them, but I can never seem to catch them all.
Make Windows shut up for good with Tinywall (https://tinywall.pados.hu/) and whitelist applications as needed.
If you have the ability to install explorerpatcher I'd recommend it.
I have a Windows 11 Pro machine and the only intrusive thing I've ever seen was the small weather box on the taskbar, which I immediately turned off. I've never seen any of the others you mention.
If its relevant I use Firedox and Kagi rather than Edge and Bing/Google.
I've never seen an ad for tv+, music or icloud on macOS.
I definitely remember seeing a tv+ signup with I first got my M2. After setting up the device.
If you're not signed into icloud, well you still have all the apps that want you to sign in. Same goes with the tv app.
I use the music app on iOS with mp3s and 3 of the 4 main app tabs are screens trying to sign me up for apple music.
Finally, I can easily put the dock (which W11 imitates, badly) on the left hand side of my screen if I wish. But I suppose Macs are less customisable?
I do see the windows stuff as more upselling to other microsoft apps like onedrive which to me doesn't seem so different form the icloud integration. I use both an haven't noticed much in win11 though.
It is not even comparable.
Just the other day, my M1 Mac at work slowed to such a crawl that mouse movement badly lagged due to runaway 'triald' (ML learning on user inputs) and Siri processes. They relaunched every time I killed them, and they were running even though Siri was explicitly disabled. Turns out there's no way to actually disable Siri without disabling SIP, which I cannot do on my work computer.
So on macOS I'm still plagued with cloud-connected crap I cannot control (or sometimes even expect) that at worst can make my computer completely unusable.
Is it different from Windows bullshit in interesting ways worth talking about? Definitely. Can the two things be compared? Definitely!
- nagging
- online accounts
- tracking user behavior
- 'free' cloud services (the user is the product, blah blah blah)
- having an adversarial relationship with your own tools; having to go to extraordinary lengths to disable user-hostile behavior
which are all very much implicated in products like Siri and in being unable to actually disable it.When you think seriously about what adware is like and what actually makes it so odious, it's clear that parts of macOS are characterized by many of the same traits and behaviors, even though Apple isn't selling third-party ads in macOS the way Microsoft is doing with Windows.
I can't remember ever seeing anything about TV+ or Music, and the only time I'm told about iCloud storage is when my drive or backups are almost out of space, which makes sense.
There might be invitations to TV/Music when you install it or first use the OS or something (I can't remember), but there absolutely isn't anything "all the time".
This only makes sense to iCloud users. I've never intentionally put anything in iCloud and I get a constant parade of alerts about it being full. On macOS it doesn't matter where you click on the alert widget, it takes you to the page where you can pay for iCloud regardless. It is very spammy.
Also, the Mac notification has a prominent "Close" button and doesn't even mention iCloud until you click through to see available options:
Whenever I hit the play button it's like 50/50 if Spotify will continue or if apple will open up the music app inviting me to sign up for music.
I did get pestered about joining icloud pretty regularly in the past but haven't seen those in a bit. I prefer onedrive and Google photos since it works on my non apple machines too.
That's not my experience with Windows, where I get random popups in the UI of the operating system about different offers. Not cool.
But after a month of running windows 11 with explorerpatcher for gaming, hobby programming, and music production (daw, vsts etc) everything is pretty flawless.
Which edition of Windows 11 is less/least/not ad-y? Is Pro in any ways better than Home?
Is there an Enterprise edition that I, as a 'normal person' / non-corporate entity, can purchase and use on my personal system (or VM running under Linux/macOS)? I would think that corporations would not want ads on their employer-provided systems, and so they aren't present in the {Pro?, Enterprise?} releases.
Pro is better than home as it supports domain join so it will "allow" local accounts (hidden in the OOBE UI under "domain join instead"). As it can domain join it should respect every setting you could set through GPO and allow you to configure a bunch of things the home version won't. But if you're not a windows admin that knows this stuff already do you really want to invest your time in wrangling a increasingly hostile OS?
Enterprise is not really for sale to most people. Technically i suppose you could buy a M365 E3 subscription and use that to activate pro to enterprise, but again do you really want to?
Sometimes it's needed for certain applications, so one has to at least run it in a VM perhaps.
I do Linux sysadmin stuff, but we have to deal with Windows clients, and so I many need it a (home) lab to play with things. I can do domain-y stuff with Samba 4 at least.
It's absurd how badly the Windows customer experience has degraded in the name of bundling shitty Bejeweled clones - how much money could MSFT be possibly making on this kind of deal that makes the trade worthwhile?!
Not to mention some of the less egregious but nonetheless annoying things - when I had my Win10 install the default Docs directory pointed at the cloud-synced container which then proceeded to pester me about upgrading to a paid plan. Not just once or twice and not in an unobtrusive way - literally on every single boot in the task bar.
Unless you need GPU performance. In that case it's very easy to beat the performance of most Macs unless you spend 60% more.
One of the main reasons I stick with Windows on my personal PC is I can enable RDP and use a Linux or Mac RDP client to access my beefy computer.
I'm pretty sure remote desktop apps aren't exclusive to Windows.
If you're interested in a turnkey alternative, consider NoMachine.
If you are willing to play around with finicky stuff, Xpra and FreeNX easily outperformed RDP the last time I played with all this stuff (many years ago).
For Linux to Linux X Forwarding-based solutions give you a much better, local-like experience with Linux than you can get without paying many thousands of dollars for Terminal Services on Windows.
Windows is a piece of shit. It's honestly one of the worst pieces of software I have to use on a daily basis. I've always been some kind of a linux enthusiast, but I've always had to use windows as my daily driver due to either CAD software, ableton live, a certain game not playing nice with linux, etc.
I've been using windows for 2 decades now, and I just can't believe it keeps getting worse and worse. It's slow, it's riddled with ads, it's constantly changing everything around for no good reason. I'm so sick of it, and I'm STILL stuck with it. If I could move autodesk inventor and ableton live over, I'd finally be free, but I've had no luck. I'm just really appalled by the garbage microsoft has pushed out
This lets me completely isolate windows and only use it for games. And ableton runs just fine in a vm, so I don’t have to have a separate Mac. Plus it makes it really easy to try out the new Linux flavor of the month!
It was a bit of work to get it figured out but it’s been running smoothly like this for a few years now. I refuse to install windows as a first-class citizen on any computer I own, because as you said, it’s fucking garbage.
Both my work-issued 2019 16” and my personal 2023 16” have excellent keyboards.
Long 3 and a half years that I didn’t even feel at all because I’ve never even touched a butterfly keyboard MacBook. My previous personal MacBook was a mid-2015 15”.
(FWIW I use a mechanical keyboard with mine when at my desk, but I don't, like, hate life when I'm away from my desk and have to use the built-in keyboard, even if it's for a whole week. It's fine. I don't even really think about it.)
Yes it made quite a bit of news and drama, but it's all fixed.
With all that said Apple does have a premium product that generally "just works", is more power efficient, and has (on average) a longer life cycle than a PC.
I picked up a macbook air m1 refurbished from apple to see what the fuss is about. It's a great machine. If not for that Debian would be primary OS, as it has been for the past ~15 years. I have one mac and a bunch of thinkpads running linux and/or BSD.
It’s just a question of whether it’s good enough for you or not. And honestly, for laptops, the answer so far is probably still "not". Thunderbolt not working is kind of a deal killer, for example.
https://github.com/AsahiLinux/docs/wiki/Feature-Support
Gotta say the other day I was thinking about the Mac Pro and even at only 192GB of memory, 20P/4E with some Optane SSDs and some flash behind it would absolutely tear through postgres workloads, I bet.
Everyone is dumping on Mac Pro for regressing on memory capacity (after spending the last 2 years dumping on the "$50k mac" and comparing it against Threadripper builds that top out at 256GB), and asking why Mac Pro instead of Studio. Since Asahi doesn't support Thunderbolt yet, you can't use enclosures on Studio. Mac Pro is the only option for a PCIe card that Apple won't sign a driver kext for (NVIDIA cards, for example - and they do have an aarch64 driver thanks to the Tegra family!).
NVIDIA glomming onto Asahi and giving it formal support instead of going their own way with L4T/Jetson Linux would be an interesting course of events. It is, after all, just ARM64/AArch64 under the hood.
This is nowhere near the truth. Only ads present in a default MacOS install are in the App Store, for apps. Windows has all sorts of ads in the start menu itself.
WSL is a buggy mess with a lot of serious problems. It's nice enough for Linux dabblers but anyone else will eventually run into some combination of the memory leaks, data loss, fundamental incapabilities (e.g., no hardware passthrough), inconsistent install process, showstopping window management bugs for the graphical components, random breakage in the CLI interop interface, text encoding problems in the WSL CLI, hangups related to systemd support, lack of a proper service management layer OOTB, etc.
WSL has different install requirements for Windows 10 and Windows 11. On Windows 10, it requires a special Windows Optional Component to be enabled, which is a change that requires local admin rights. On Windows 11, WSL can be installed from the Microsoft Store with no need to set up the Windows Optional Component. Shortly after that version of WSL for Windows 11 went live in the Microsoft Store, Microsoft removed the hooks in their installer which enabled that Optional Component in the case it was disabled— on all versions of Windows. So on systems where end users have limited or no admin rights, Windows 10 users cannot install WSL, but Windows 11 users can. On systems which use whitelists for specific installers and processes to be able to elevate privileges, installing WSL on Windows 10 broke because the whitelisted process no longer attempts to set up WSL's dependencies. My organization was bitten by this.
Like with other aspects of WSL, the deeper your engagement is the more bugs and quirks are revealed.
> many need to step outside and realize that Windows has made great strides since Windows 8.
Never ran Windows 8, thankfully. All I know having returned to Windows for a year for the sake of a job is that it is much worse than it was the last time I used it. I'm sorry to hear that Windows 8 so lowered your expectations. It must have been pretty bad.
> Acting like the entire OS is now adware is just complete nonsense.
I'm way more interested in setting realistic expectations about WSL for fellow Linux users than the overall value of Windows, which is probably already a settled question for most of us. But this statement strikes me as pretty funny. 'Complete nonsense' is a pretty strong phrase. If you ever figure out what makes something 'truly adware', send a tip to the lexicographers, because I've just checked 3 dictionaries and Windows qualifies as adware by all 3 definitions they had! :P
More seriously: Windows is definitely different from a lot of adware in that advertising isn't the only revenue strategy for Windows, and Microsoft also sees Windows fulfilling other purposes for them than selling ad space. But generally, 'adware' doesn't mean much more than 'annoying software which shows me ads I don't want to see'. How can you argue that Windows is not that for many, many people?
I switched from from Macs to Microsoft Surfaces when they first came out and found them to be significantly more stable.
I can't deny that new Macbooks might be the best hardware you can get, but I'm still going with a Framework running Linux for my next portable.
The last time I used macOS professionally, I also experienced what I'd consider poor stability there, so maybe I'll feel differently after more time. But so far, after several weeks, it seems obvious to me that my new work MBP is much more stable than the Windows laptop they gave me a year ago.
I haven't used windows in ages so not going to comment on that. The only thing that appeals to me is that it now does linux better than it used to. But the one thing it had going for it back in the day (games) is now something that Linux does as well via Steam. Which, is why I have a cheap laptop running Manjaro and Steam for some casual gaming. Works great. But the hardware is not great.
Microsoft (aside from its niche Surface lineup) is mostly dependent on OEMs for laptops. Apple builds its own hardware and they do a very good job. Other laptops exist but they tend to be compromises on battery, screen quality, performance, touchpads, etc. Most vendors get at least a few of those wrong. Almost all of them ship with mediocre synaptics touchpads. Quite a few insist on bundling screens with unimpressive resolutions, contrast, etc. The cheap Manjaro laptop I have is guilty of pretty much all of that. Mediocrity is the norm for windows laptops. And invariably the nicer ones are close in price to what Apple charges.
There are a few premium laptops of course. But even those tend to be compromises. E.g. Lenovo, which some people seem to like and recommend, comes with this weird nipple thing and a cheapo synaptics touchpad with actual physical buttons. Just horrible. Which is probably why most Lenovo users I've seen seem to use a wireless mouse. Neither the nipple thing nor the touchpad is really usable as an input device, apparently. The screens on those things are also not quite what I'm used to (less color, contrast and pixels, wrong aspect ratio). So, if I'm going to spend lots of money, that's not what I'd buy.
I might put Asahi Linux on a mac at some point though. I don't think I'd miss OS X that much.
And unless you're doing some _really_ heavy stuff, they're perfectly fine for software development too. I have personally run Unity + Rider + Dockerised backend & local database on an M-series for years with zero performance issues.
Today I don't think I'll ever use a Windows machine again with the exception of being forced to duel boot for gaming.
Linux is basically my go for most things these days, but I have a Macbook too because there really isn't anything that competes with their build quality (in my opinion anyway).
I don't understand why Windows can't just make a decent professional OS with an old-style start menu and no ads / spyware. If they want to release a ad-riddled piece of crap for home users on a budget then whatever, but I'm obviously not going to be using that as a professional / power user.
I was hoping Windows 8 & 10 might have just been products of Balmer's Microsoft, but they don't really have an excuse for it anymore. If anything it seems to just be getting progressively worse.
Obviously there are edge cases, but generally speaking, any random machine I've put Ubuntu on just works.
It helps that interoperability and common software (or at least competent alternatives) is dramatically better than it used to be, that you can comfortably and inexpensively run Windows or Linux in a VM almost anywhere, and the web got big. There was once a lot of friction to so much as moving a file.
Gaming beyond Windows and native big name productivity software for Linux remain pain points.
Macs (let's ignore the Mac Pro) are relatively far less expensive than they used to be. The price difference was eye-watering for a lot of years. Still premium but about on the level of premium PCs.
In the 90s there was much more non-Linux Unix, many more CPUs (not just Intel/AMD/ARM), and very few linux laptops.
Is there anyone even trying to build a real competitor in that size class?
As a manufacturer you'd add significant weight and cost and still not be competitive with a MacBook's battery life.
Windows' laptop problems start with hardware, and a lost decade of mobile x86 chips failing to optimize for power efficiency, and a commensurate lack of investment in ARM alternatives after getting burned on Windows RT.
Compared to NVLink'd 3090s in a tower or A100s in a data center
M2 Max gets 5 tokens/sec on a 65B model, do you consider that "light'?
96GB max ram is quite a bit for vram and is still quite battery friendly, unlike a 3090/4090 (or 3).
MPS support is lacking in many ways, i.e. BF16 support is only arriving with Sonoma. One of the biggest things Nvidia has going for it is software maturity, CUDA is far beyond any alternative, particularly MPS. Many PyTorch optimizations only support Nvidia GPUs.
And the tensor core equivalents on Apple SoCs are in the ANE, which necessitates using CoreML. While unified memory bandwidth is impressive on Apple SoCs, it is still slower than recent gen Nvidia cards.
While the PPW certainly is impressive and the overall ML performance is impressive for laptop SoCs, Apple Silicon simply does not hold a candle to discrete GPU performance. You're correct, it can certainly run local inference on the memory-hungry, demanding LLMs that are en vogue currently, but you won't see the performance of a discrete GPU.
The unified memory lends itself to a cheaper, yet slower, alternative to DC-grade Nvidia cards with massive amounts of HBM, but there's a reason you don't see racks of Apple Silicon for LLM training, or even inference at scale.
I'm hopeful the software will vastly improve as Apple Silicon adoption grows, because I'd love to run some of the stuff I build for school on my MacBook, but for now I offload it to my desktop PC because the raw compute brings more value to me than the efficiency when due dates approach.
However the Apple M2 MAX GPU seems to do inference decently when using code targetting Metal (Apple's GPU API). Apparently inference on the llama 65B model with a M2 max happens at 5 tokens/sec. Not an amazing perf/$ for running inference at scale, but pretty interesting for a developer to tinker with. While the M2 Max with 96GB ram is slower than a 4090 it can run larger models and I'm not expecting to be particularly performance limited for home/local inference.
Apple Silicon is an even better deal for learning/tinkering with ML models if you already own one or plan to purchase one regardless. As you mentioned, the unified memory architecture is a cheaper alternative to massive/expensive Nvidia GPUs for running inference on larger models. The software is only going to improve, given the growing enthusiast cohort and Apple's push towards providing a solid ML development pipeline on MacOS.
The UI is buggy, pop-up windows steal focus all the time, window management is pretty much nonexistent, there are slow animations with laggy focus changes.
It may be fine for a soft user who just uses a browser, but trying to do any serious work on a mac is a nightmare compared to a modern tiling WM on linux.
Perhaps the revenue my code generates isn't "serious", but I'm happy to sit down at any Mac with Visual Studio Code and drag and drop my way to the bank instead of spending hours getting my dotfiles to artisanal perfection.
Perhaps I'm privileged, but to me using multiple monitors each with a full focus, and swipe gestures to move between desktops, is as useful as any tiling WM.
Leave my screen real estate alone, please get rid of this annoying menu bar that gets in the way when I'm trying to use the mouse to switch tabs in the application. This is UI thinking from the 1980s. It's very easy to misclick the tab because of the fine control skills required to avoid the menu bar. I don't want full screen because of my multi-monitor setup.
Interestingly, speaking of multimonitor... Connecting my M2 to my gaming monitor... Windows syncs with the monitor in 3 seconds, the Mac takes 10 seconds.
You can see, right there in your statement, the problem with Macs: they cater to a wealthy coastal technology elite that believes they know better than everybody else.
Honestly tho, I find modern Windows infuriating to use without stripping it down quite a bit. Tiny11 is a lifesaver.
I wouldn’t count on this being the case going forward. Let’s not forget that some 4 years ago Apple decided to completely drop support for 32-bit apps. I wouldn’t be surprised if in 5-8 years time they decide to drop support for anything x86.
Apple hates supporting legacy crap. The exact moment when the vast majority of the recently updated Mac apps will have ARM builds, Apple will just set a release some years in the future that will kill native x86 support and that will be the end of it.
I'd be pretty shocked if they didn't.
Making it work on ARM is one thing, making it work well, and supporting the platform are a far more important part of the puzzle.
Make Windows shut up for good with Tinywall (https://tinywall.pados.hu/) and whitelist applications as needed.
I haven't used Windows for a while, but back in the day, it did not provide any extra capabilities in this regard over MacOS. Now I use an extension to tile the desktop with windows, and it works great.
MacOS is so intrusive and distracting that I can't imagine doing any meaningful work on it, feels like a toy OS.
More-controversial is the different behavior of cmd-tab between Mac and Windows (app-level vs window-level). Once you learn that cmd-` also exists for switching between windows inside an app, I find it's a matter of personal preference and you can make arguments either way about which one is "better"...
Here is an example of how the app-centric model of task switching is problematic beyond personal preference: it causes focus stealing when opening GUI windows from the CLI. The apps themselves have to (partially, because that's the best they can do) work around the window manager's broken behavior.
The final answer from the initiated seems to be 'you're holding it wrong'. So here we have a Certified Unix™ where something as banal as setting your $EDITOR to a GUI program is broken by default and even when 'fixed' causes your window order to be shuffled around.
Examples:
https://emacs.stackexchange.com/questions/24033/when-returni...
https://github.com/sublimehq/sublime_text/issues/4460
https://www.reddit.com/r/osx/comments/i5zqn5/focus_doesnt_re...
Using macOS is a barrage of papercuts like this for me, and the window manager is at the heart of many of them.
I suspect that most RISC-V designs that are supposed to compete with ARM apps processors don't actually have lower power consumption.
....yet.