I just bought a Quest Pro this weekend and was hoping to get something like this running.
Apple should do the right thing and support early VisionOS development using the Quest Pro.
Apple should do the right thing and support early VisionOS development using the Quest Pro.
Releasing supported SDKs is expensive as hell.
If anyone insists on forcing me to run myself into penury and put myself in legal jeopardy, just to support my competitors, then I would close up shop.
However, Apple has a wee bit more clout than I do. I suspect that it would not happen.
They already have a monopoly on use of physical force and detention. There is no 'more power' to give them.
You are confusing 'enacting legislation' with 'giving power'. And anti-trust regulation would cover anti-competitive behavior (if we ever enforced it), so no legislation has to be enacted. It is only a matter of determining if it anti-competitive, which it appears not to be.
Rest easy, there are more impactful things to worry about than government overreach into the practices of huge society-shaping entities which are larger than most other nation's governments.
Note: When will a corporation become big enough that we concede that without the monopoly on force and detention it is a de-facto government? At that point can the libertarians give up the 'hands off corporate affairs' schtick?
> Note: When will a corporation become big enough that we concede that without the monopoly on force and detention it is a de-facto government? At that point can the libertarians give up the 'hands off corporate affairs' schtick
There is absolutely no BigTech company that I can’t use my own free will not to use.
My ad blocker blocks analytics on mobile and desktop that takes care of Google and Facebook.
Whose left?
Also, the cell phone in your pocket broadcasts your location a few times a second, and the corporations with that data love working with the government.
Did they come in your home and force you to use their products?
Let's some questions which don't lead immediately to your 'thought-terminating cliche':
What does having a monolith contribute to society both in terms of value and innovation?
Are there examples where this ended up being beneficial?
Is it a good idea to allow the logical conclusion of free market capitalism be one monopolistic entity which has stifled or bought all competition? What do you think there is to gain by doing such a thing?
So you can’t come up with an example…
> What does having a monolith contribute to society both in terms of value and innovation?
Which BigTech company is a “monolith” without competition?
Every single homeless person that I see out there, has a smartphone.
They don’t have a place to sleep, but they have a phone.
People like to assume that governments and corporations are inherently incompatible, but that’s just not true. A government is just whichever organization(s) has the most power within a geographical region and a company can very easily become the de facto government in an area if its power is unchecked.
For the most prominent historical example of this look at the East India Government: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_India_Company
From a contemporary perspective there are plenty of examples of large multinationals effectively controlling and directing smaller, less wealthy governments. Even in big countries with strong governments, the influence of large corporations on what laws get passed and how they are enforced can become significant.
Shouldn’t be a shock tho: HN skews American-style “libertarian” (just look how gooey it went over Andrew Yang & his nonsense) which is “very right wing but also likes weed” in practice.
You’ll also see a lot of semi-disguised Andrew Tate & Jordan Peterson nonsense if you spend enough time in the comments
Not everyone is like that of course, but it’s there. Very there.
I mean, that’s their bumper sticker pitch, sure. But it breaks down real fast when you actually look at the policies they push.
There are some true believer libertarians out there tho! They do things like take over towns & run them into the ground.
Libertarianism is a failed ideology in the USA. You can argue it was co-opted, etc, which is fair… but that’s where it is.
OP stated correctly an honest belief of limited government that people hold and your response was just a misguided political rant.
Each of your misguided points could be torn apart, but this isn't a political thread. It's a thread about Apple VisionOS ffs.
Your denial of reality to defend your ideology being one example itself. Face it: you’re just feeling emotional that your pet faith isn’t respected.
As a consumer; I want an affordable, high quality product that supports all of the software/games I like to use.
The task of getting my MacBook to run Linux and play video games is massive on the part of Apple. I understand that interplay is intricate, complex and expensive to implement so it's not fair to force Apple to implement anything they don't want to - for instance have the government declare Vulcan a mandatory standard for all OSes.
As someone who values the freedom we have to innovate, I don't know what the right way to convince everyone to play nicely together is but ultimately it's about stimulating competition to drive innovation.
The current environment stifles innovation, either through ring fencing developers/users or adding a storefront/marketplace tax to distributing a product, killing new products before they get off the ground.
The Apple Silicon hardware is remarkable, but outside of web browsing, basic web development and video editing - it's artificially limited in it's capabilities.
Windows is a dumpster fire, holding onto market share due to its mammoth support for software and Microsoft won't improve Windows unless there is competition.
Perhaps the solution is not to force "platform" companies to build anything, but instead think of software like we did old school repairable hardware and implement regulations that require vendors to offer the equivalent of schematics.
Perhaps regulations that require platform developers to distribute their software/drivers under permissive open source licenses such that people can implement competing platforms. That way no one is compelled to do anything but if a disruptor (like say, SteamOS or Asahi) wants to compete, they can freely build a better product without needing to reverse engineer APIs and worry about getting sued.
Perhaps OS vendors be regulated such that they must offer a means for third party software to be run. That way developers could distribute for platforms through their own marketing efforts and the value proposition for OS marketplaces/app stores is a better ROI - rather than being "the only option"
Perhaps hardware should be regulated such that it's "jail-breakable". That way disruptors could offer competing platforms that are compatible with the original (like the ROMs available on some Android devices, or Ubuntu OS or something).
...Or maybe that would disincentivize the giants from building anything because there's nothing other than investing in innovation that would protect them from losing market share
I'm not advocating to open source all the things under GPL or something - feel free to keep Photoshop, Word and The Witcher 3 closed source - we just need some kind of balance that lets me, as a consumer, have choices so that the giants can fight it out and build the best products.
And as an engineer you should know that the best products never come from a committee or standardization. Bluetooth is a shit show. Apple’s implementation on top of Bluetooth is remarkable.
> We can see that the market also wants this and that's probably why everything is now an Electron app.
Do you really want to cite Electron apps as an example of how great interoperability is?
> As someone who values the freedom we have to innovate, I don't know what the right way to convince everyone to play nicely together is but ultimately it's about stimulating competition to drive innovation.
You have all of the freedom you want. You can buy a PinePhone and a Framework laptop.
> The Apple Silicon hardware is remarkable, but outside of web browsing, basic web development and video editing - it's artificially limited in it's capabilities.
Yet millions of people use Macs for development of Android and iOS apps, music and video editing, basic productivity, etc.
> Perhaps OS vendors be regulated such that they must offer a means for third party software to be run. That way developers could distribute for platforms through their own marketing efforts and the value proposition for OS marketplaces/app stores is a better ROI - rather than being "the only option"
Or alternatively, people can use their own free will and choose a more “open” alternative.
That's literally my argument, lol
> Do you really want to cite Electron apps as an example of how great interoperability is?
Never said it was good, only that it's an example of the market driven need for platform interoperability of software.
My point was actually that Electron is bad and the fact that platform providers don't play well together is the reason why we, as consumers, must suffer Electron apps.
> Or alternatively, people can use their own free will and choose a more “open” alternative.
The idea is to stimulate competition, open or otherwise, to give consumers more choice and make startups/disruptors more likely to succeed. For instance, try install Uber on a PinePhone.
For example - it shouldn't require a multi-billion dollar company investing at a loss, risking lawsuits, to disrupt the gaming market away from Windows (Steam Deck).
Name one.
- Gaming - Containerisation - Nested Virtualization - CI/CD workflows building for MacOS and iOS targets - CI/CD workflows running automated browser testing for Safari
Which could be remedied without regulations by Apple collaborating with existing projects attempting to make these things possible, something Apple refuses to do.
If your contention is that 31% is a monopoly then… you’re incorrect.
Their mobile OS share is 57.28% in the US btw, tho it’s barely 32% globally.
Why would that be the right thing?
Quest Pro doesn’t have the same capabilities as Vision.
I imagine you'd probably still want to use the simulator to ensure your code will run on the actual Apple hardware, but for verifying actual UX/behaviour I'd take the Quest Pro over that any day.
I have not used or even seen neither product, so I wouldn’t know whether they’re right, but do not rule that out, either. For example, the video resolution on Apple’s product is so much higher that it may cross a threshold w.r.t. user experience.
Also, if they did come out with a Quest-based simulator, I think it would be very bad for their marketing.
I would expect ‘the internet’ to say “it’s a Quest, but with a much higher price tag”. How would they go on from there to selling these devices?
I'm willing to bet that you can develop a prototype for an app in Unreal Engine right now, and I'm willing to bet that Unreal Engine will be ported to Vision OS and that you can get that code running on there pretty quickly after release.
I don't see how this is very much different from how it'd be to develop Windows or Xbox applications. I might use be able to develop some core code with .NET core, or even a full game using cross-platform tools like Unreal or Unity.. but if I'm actually shipping a product I can't expect to get far without using Microsofts officially supported toolchain.
I'd say it's reasonable to be annoyed that you're not allowed to run Mac OS on non-apple hardware. But it's not reasonable to be annoyed that Apple isn't spending millions on officially supporting an SDK for their devices on other OS's, just for a very small niche set of users.
https://lidarandradar.com/differences-between-the-lidar-syst...
Here’s a better one https://www.eyerys.com/articles/how-apples-lidar-sensor-diff...
Basically Lidar is time of flight and longer range. TrueDepth is a high density grid that’s pattern analyzed.
"RUMOR: Why Meta removed the Depth Sensor at the last minute
It allowed you to see people without clothes. It was not it's purpose, but during testing: someone noticed that by using the sensor someone could develop “creeper apps”
Privacy chaos, they prefered to skip the sensor "
They’re adding it to the Quest 3 and iPhones/iPads have had depth sensors for years now. It’s not be an issue for them.
They control the OS. They can control the drivers. It’s avoidable.
1. It runs iOS and iPad apps.
2. The simulator is available and several devs have already ported and added visionOS specific feature support with it.
3. They’re supposedly making developer units available to applicants starting sometime this month.
4. They’ve already had several third party developers they’ve showed in their press releases
—-
Which is to say , I don’t think they will necessarily have a chicken and egg problem at launch which is still months away.
So there’s no real motivation to open up their development to competing platforms.