Men are lost. Here’s a map out of the wilderness | Hacker News Reader

Men are lost. Here’s a map out of the wilderness

washingtonpost.com

10 pointsBalgair15 comments

I am fortunate to have three siblings with children of their own. During my teens, twenties and early thirties I've watched as my six nieces and nephews have gone from preschool, gradeschool and now, for some of them, into university. It's been a marvelous experience. The most striking observation comes from the development of my nephews. Our view of masculinity is decidedly stoic, strong, independent and emotionally stable-- there is nothing in my mind to say men can't be _different_, just that Western culture has selected that male paragon for so long, it may take another hundred years for a masculinism movement to make any changes to this norm. Anyways, my anecdotal experience watching my nephews grow up points toward a few clear heuristics: boys grow into good men when they are surrounded by nurturing parents; plenty of exercise, ideally in the backcountry; the opportunity to make (and then correct) mistakes in an environment that doesn't prematurely shame; a social environment comprised of good men and women from all ages and to whom they can relate; strong family connections, especially around dinner time; and most of all, parents who encourage them to get outside, get lost, get in trouble, all without a cellphone, social media or an escape hatch.

On the topic of social media, if it's been proven bad for teenage girls, it shouldn't be a surprise that social media must be equally polarizing, alienating and ultimately extremely poisonous for our young men as well.

I'm a man and I don't feel particularly lost.

For all that this article had to say, (and it said a lot without saying much), I see us needing two things: Good brothers and good women. We need each other. We really do.

We could probably use some more fraternal organizations. I don't expect your typical Twitch subscriber to join the Loyal Order of Water Buffaloes, but can you imagine the mental health benefit for a lonely young man to join a supportive yet diverse group of peers?

If you feel lonely and disempowered, try Brazilian Jiu Jitsu.

Give it a few weeks and you’ll start to develop both the competence and camaraderie we all crave.

I have a stupid question, why do all of these conversations forget male athletes? Professional athletes are some of the best and prime examples of traditional masculinity as swimsuit models may be a traditional example of femininity for women. I personally don't care for any of these traditional examples or using them as a guide in some sense (i.e. maybe you don't care about sports, but you can still be fit etc.). However I understand that having role models or examples is important for some people, so I don't judge.

Relatedly, I don't understand how sports can be neglected when talking about discipline. Talk to any student athlete, whether HS or beyond, if you play sports while studying, discipline becomes a habit.

I think the phrase "toxic masculinity" did a lot of damage. At their core, the toxic aspects in masculinity are really just average human behavior. There are plenty of examples that are similar in female behavior, although on average women are perceived to be more compassionate, empathetic and kinder.

Whatever, I suppose. The pendulum swings to either extreme momentarily, but ultimately rests in balance.

Ouch. I have a son in his mid-20's and this article pretty much hits the nail on the head. I'm doing my best to support him finding his path without me having to deliberately grab him by the arm and blaze a trail for him.

Expecting the fact that you are male to provide some kind of guidance on how to live seems very strange to me.

I am, however, in my 40s and don't remember my youth especially well. Maybe it did.

I'm a young man and I am currently in this ginnungagap. The challenge of my generation is perhaps a spiritual one. A lot of us are somewhat directionless and chase our own solitary goals. I don't see any external encouragement or reason to start a family or actualize as a man. Community is not readily available. Cultural and civic identity are in flux. The media and millieu hates me. There are no savings, and no government programs. I succeed in spite of these things, because of my family's support, and by my own hard work.

Reality is that every generation of young men needs support. You can't remove that and wonder why your society is floundering. And the answer certainly isn't "well women can fill the gap". No, they can't. Some tasks require a measure of masculine bravado to bridge uncertainty. Let's say China moves their ships into Taiwan tomorrow; who are you going to send? Your daughters? Please. It's not fair for us to ask women to be this. If our society was an organism then right now it would have an auto-immune disease. At this point we're just waiting for the other shoe to drop.

I'm not saying we return to male hegemony, but I believe a healthier medium is possible. I say this as a guy that buys Pantene conditioner and lifts weights, loves flowers and heavy metal. An integration of the masculine and feminine is possible; it's called being well-adjusted. Until feminists present a new synthesis of masculinity that is actually compelling to men their schtik is DOA. It's also almost axiomatically impossible that they will come up with something appealing to us, because they aren't men and they don't care to listen to men. These kinds of people are the Chamberlains of our age, farting around while real threats are mounting. We'll find a way without them.

> It is harder to be a man today, and in many ways, that is a good thing: Finally, the freer sex is being held to a higher standard.

Kindly [*] off with this [*]. Everyone struggles. To live is to endure pain. No exceptions are made.

It all seems fairly straightforward to me: rulers are greedy, the public suffers, men weaken, no fathers to teach the boys, etc etc on your positive feedback loop, until war breaks out and we reset. The rest is grift.

Edit: for excess profanity. My apologies.

4000 comments btw, here is a good one which I think is really nicely put

>When simple good manners is ridiculed as “virtue signalling”, and simple Civility in speech is ridiculed as “political correctness”, and sensitivity and compassion for others is labeled “woke”, and the supreme Court says corporations are persons, what does it mean to be a gentleman these days? No wonder the kids are Confused

https://archive.is/AQkWK

A childhood bounded by Purell hand sanitizer, the abandonment of religion and traditional values, zero tolerance fighting/bullying/wrestling in school, dead beat father figures, and helicopter parents along with the availability of easy entertainment and air conditioning everywhere leads to weak boys who turn into weak men. Boys must be given the room to find out their strengths and weaknesses and (most importantly) learn how to tame and control them. This is accomplished by hard work, sports, and letting boys be boys - fighting, playing outside, etc.

> In the end, the sexes rise and fall together. The truth is that most women still want to have intimate relationships with good men. And even those who don’t still want their sons, brothers, fathers and friends to live good lives.

It's nice to have someone actually acknowledge this.

Getting strong is hard. Staying weak is also hard.

For those hoping, there is no xkcd style map of manhood image sitting on the other side of that link

Without the paywallhttps://archive.fo/knUgf

Thanks!

TLS errors from chrome on iOS.

Can somebody supply a link without a paywall?

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