Ford unleashes the UK’s first legal hands-free drive car – but who will buy it? | Hacker News Reader

Ford unleashes the UK’s first legal hands-free drive car – but who will buy it?

theguardian.com

39 pointsSymbiote43 comments

One thing I learned for "Design of Everyday things" is that when someone blame themselves for not correctly using a product, it is bad design of the product at fault instead.

In car which offers self driving restrictions people are going to look away. If looking away caused an accident will the be blaming the drivers? Will drivers be blaming themselves? These UXs are life threatening.

We can't even consistently get door handles right:

* https://www.vox.com/2016/2/26/11120236/bad-doors-human-cente...

Agreed. I'll only count the tech as truly ready when the cars don't ship with steering wheels.

I would accept the manufacturer accepting full liability while self driving as an alternative.

I think currently only Mercedes is doing that (and there's limits--Mercedes won't go to jail for you if you self drive home while intoxicated)

First of all, a car is not an “everyday thing”, it is a complex machine that requires special training to operate.

Secondly, this is why driver monitoring systems are so important. This system specifically talks about eye monitoring.

It's just another everyday machine that requires trained people to operate. Doesn't change the fact that machines designed for trained professionals also cause accidents just because they were poorly designed. The book mentions airplane accidents a lot and how that industry learned from them and improved designs as well procedures.

Driver monitoring system like that will just be adding another layer which can fail in so many unpredictable ways.

Motorway only, with eye tracking and disables if you aren't looking forward

So basically adaptive cruise control

Adaptive cruise control is automatic speed adjustment, with you doing the steering. This adds automatic steering and removes the need to keep your hands on the wheel. Hands-free is the big differentiator from existing lane-keeping systems.

What else am I going to do with my hands while staring at the road? Even if I could get a hands-off upgrade in my existing car, and I wasn't opposed to car subscriptions, I wouldn't pay this price. Just give me normal level 2 driving.

The idea is that you can keep them in your lap, which tends to be a more relaxed position than actively gripping the wheel. It may not be your thing, which is fine. But I do a 10hr road trip a few times a year, and personally would see a benefit.

Personally I could care less about automating driving on surface streets. I'm a fan of just about anything that makes the long hauls easier.

Adaptive cruise control with lane keeping (ie. you don't need to keep your hands on the wheel) is already a thing in many cars.

ACC with LKAS is not the same as "you don't need to keep your hands on the wheel". AFAIK, It's only GM (Super Cruise), Ford (Blue Cruise) and Mercedes Benz (Drive Pilot) who have ACC systems that are designed to be completely handsfree on select motor ways.

"Don't have to firmly grip the steering wheel" is a thing. You're supposed to keep your hands loosely on the wheel, following along while the car takes the lead on turning the wheel.

The Ford thing is "hands in your lap," and is publicly advertised that way. It's far rarer.

Very few in the US (the MachE mentioned in the article is one with BlueCruise, SuperCruise from GM exists as well) and only one in Europe.

From the article: “…become the first to offer hands-free driving capabilities on roads in the UK – a first for the whole of Europe, as well.”

O_o I rented a hyundai a few weeks ago that had acc with steering, throttle, and braking. I tested the hands free mode on the interstate and it worked very well.

No Hyundai is sold with a hands free driving option. You were operating the vehicle incorrectly and unsafely.

https://www.jdpower.com/cars/shopping-guides/what-is-hyundai...

"To be clear, HDA 2 is not a hands-free driving system. If the driver takes their hand off the steering wheel for several seconds while HDA 2 is active, the system will warn the driver with a message in the instrument cluster that reads, "Keep hands on steering wheel." If the driver keeps their hands off the steering wheel, the message will reappear with an audible warning. After the second message, if the driver does not take hold of the wheel, a new warning message will appear, and the system will deactivate."

And for £18/month. Subscriptions for car features need to die.

Owning one of these cars I can tell you it's not worth the money. Drops out of hands free mode every few minutes.

The only way I'm paying a goddamn subscription for something like this is when it gets me from A to B without me needing to pay any attention beyond setting the destination and watching a movie.

I live in the US but disagree entirely. Works solid where I’m driving, rarely dropping out. I bet I get an average of 55min hands free per hour of interstate driving and it is very smooth. Would definitely pay monthly for the convenience, but so far it’s still free from purchase for me.

If it doesn't work, under the Consumer Rights Act you need to ask for your money back, paying for stuff that doesn't work encourages companies to half-arse things.

Everyone would rather pay $0/month rather than $18/month, but those aren't the choices actually being offered. Realistically it's either $x/month or $y upfront. Seeing tesla's track record of selling "full self driving" as an upfront charge, I prefer the subscription model more because it allows me to stop paying if the feature ends up being a dud.

Subscriptions for self-driving actually make sense, since the company is probably taking on liability if the car crashes or something else goes wrong.

Just makes sense for self driving to have a "combined" subscription that is or functions as insurance.

It is called insurance and is a heavily regulated thing.

Actually I think they're onto something, the company being required to get insurance [too] means they have more financial skin in the game. A crash when the car is being driven by the company's algorithm should be paid for by the company and not the driver. Same as if any other engineering defect causes an accident.

> Actually I think they're onto something, the company being required to get insurance [too] means they have more financial skin in the game.

No, a company that is liable has skin in the game, insurance mitigates rather than enhances that—its the whole point of insurance, swapping out risk for a fixed cost.

OTOH, the insurer then has skin in the game.

In bulk, there's no real difference between the company getting insurance for the user, versus the company being insurance for the user.

Either way, the cost they pay will be directly related to how safe it is. They have almost all the skin in the game.

Insurance as it currently exists makes no sense if the human 'operator' is not actually driving the car.

Odd they didn't mention the price in the article. It's starting at £50k according to autoexpress.

https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/ford/mustang-mach-e/360034/new...

We need cars that are actually affordable if we’re going to complete the electric transition any time soon.

The average annual household income in the UK is just £32k, putting this laughably out of reach for most.

Yes indeed, but making electric the prestige item first has the advantage of all the trend-setting rich going for it, and then the middle class who want to emulate the rich buy the cheaper models when they're available, and hopefully by the time it reaches down to second-hand ones reaching working class people the transition has completed and not just been replaced with a counter-trend of rich people rolling coal.

Have any of the cheaper Chinese electric cars reached the UK yet? I've not been keeping track since I emigrated.

You can see what's available here: https://ev-database.org/uk/

MG have been here for years, and BYD have entered the market this year.

In terms of adoption, Teslas (Teslae? Teslata?) are now displacing Audis as the car of choice for the arsehole driver, and other marques are becoming increasingly common amongst the middle class (in the British sense, not the American). As for 'rolling coal', has anyone outside of America ever done that?

There's BYD, but I wouldn't call them "cheaper".

At the low end you've got the Nissan Leaf and Renault Zoe, both basically starting at 30K, and even used they're still pricey.

Nowhere near as pricy as they were - I've heard tale you can get a new zoe for £16k if you look in the right places. Certainly secondhand values have dropped a lot in the last 18 months.

We need less reliance on cars: decent, cheap public transport, and shared cars for when that doesn't suffice can reduce dependence on imports and energy consumption. But it's not going to happen.

And the price doesn't include the subscription for this "feature".

Has been available for a while in U.S./Canada [0]. Works on a limited pre-approved set of highways, disengages before sharp turns and in poor visibility, but yes, takes care of routine straight line driving very well.

Also, requires paid subscription after the initial 3 years (the rationale is that they need to "index" and update the compatible roads).

[0] https://www.motortrend.com/reviews/ford-bluecruise-version-1...

Full self driving will take a long series of gradual, boring steps like this.

The facts that they know who's used it and can charge a monthly subscription for it mean that the car isn't fit to be bought or used in the first place.

They start from £50k, and the average annual household income in the UK is £32k so I’m guessing not many people?

We need electric options that are actually affordable.

There are plenty of more affordable options but why would the average household be buying new anyway? The average car on the road is over 8 years old.

How much does a "regular" car usually cost in the UK?

Rather they released the f150 lightning :-)

Not that I have any justification for a pick up, but it does look like a great EV.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com