French Assembly to allow remote police surveillance via phone cameras and mics
engadget.com
engadget.com
https://www.indiatoday.in/technology/features/story/when-edw...
It's a typical SMD MEMS microphone, yeah
> i can't find anything about it googling for "s1457 4257".
That's because "1457 4257" is that particular unit's Job Identification Number, and the "S" at the beginning indicates that it's a production unit rather than a test or sample. There's no part identifier on it.
I’m not even sure what I would do if I was in that situation, where my own government decided it was okay to spy on everyone that way. I’d probably be eying the nearest border.
People here still seem to have faith that the institutions generally work as intended.
Police stations are now fortresses, as are most of the government departments. The state has made a definite choice: the hard hand, no help, and absolute priority to their own protection. Normal crime, like theft from stores, what people want the state to work on, is not even prosecuted anymore. You'd have to steal from a big store, in the city center, while an agent is there to have any chance of getting arrested (only youngsters, whom they can arrest indefinitely without evidence and convict even when innocent, ever get persecuted. Of course, the lack of evidence standards in cases against minors raise the question exactly how often these convictions (sorry "protection measures", not convictions) are fabricated. Let's just say the relation between police and youngsters is strained for some reason).
People want this to stop, and so they want more protection of the state. The French state, of course, could be said to have been less than effective in stopping these riots and the destruction. People, including representatives, are just point blank assuming this will help the police to be effective.
That the police is the cause of the riots does not seem to make a big impression. "Do not shoot people moving away from you in the face" is clearly to much for the police to handle. When you ask people "what else would you want people to do?" there are no answers, because especially nobody wants the obvious option: another long-term national strike.
Ironically the state has done nothing but grow. This is the fundamental conflict: everyone has to "save" (especially people who can't), but not the state. With inflation people have to spend ~11% less, effectively. The state has decided their absolutely necessary expenses will not even have to return to pre-pandemic levels.
People want protection, that's why this gets approved. But the state, where they believe to get this protection, is the direct cause of most of the problems people face.
You're missing the most important detail: especially in Western/Northern Europe, people are taught from childhood on that the state is there to protect you, and protecting yourself is a risk. Europeans aren't just lazily asking for protection, they simply weren't raised to defend themselves from trespassers and assailants without the thought of potentially suffering consequences (even if it is just defamation).
Of course these people are going to beg the state to do it, handing over whatever privacy or independence they believe not needed. They don't know any better. They've been raised on 'knives will be used against you' from toddler age.
We are still waiting for an example of a sane society where the opposite is true.
Make HN Great Again!
Yeah, and we call that “civilization”.
If you cannot rely on the state for security, then you're basically living in the contemporary version of the pre-modern world (South America bas manu good examples of that, but the US isn't really, people do rely on 911 more often than not)
Once enough people realize that "the state" can't be everywhere at once and start committing crimes, things start to break down.
That's a (ideologically driven) myth though: if there's just one thing to learn from the twentieth century, it's that even with limited available technologies, a State that wants to be everywhere, can be everywhere, and it's only getting more true as technology advances[1]. And NSA alone collects enough information today to be able to solve the large chunk of unaddressed crime in most of the developed world, it's just a matter of political will regarding resource allocation (with a little bit of Baumol's cost disease, but it's not the main factor at play).
Having a state that is effectively everywhere is of course not something desirable either (again, the lessons from the past century) but the state abandoning its role is a politically constructed situation (it's what you get when laissez-faire becomes a religious theme).
[1] and it fact, it is because the reach of state steadily increased during the early-mid modern period that we've reached the current state of things. It's not that people haven't yet learned that the state cannot be everywhere, it's that states spent several century building the ability to be everywhere, which in turn led to this confidence from the population (and unfortunately to totalitarism sometimes…)
As far as property crime against businesses is concerned, we absolutely should be telling people it's a risk to intervene. We should actively dissuade drugstore clerks from risking life and limb to stop someone from stealing a cart of sudafed in exchange for minimum wage at will employment with no benefits.
As a normal person, I don't care about petty shoplifting but I would expect from the state for example to investigate murders.They're poorly investigated in general because they are hard to clear and you can't put them in your stats whereas arresting a youngster and taking his weed counts as a solved case.
I think people keep on thinking that "the rich" feel they have some kind of moral obligation to help them. As we've seen time and again, they do not. And they will even go out of their way to protect their money. See all the fiscal arrangements they set up to "optimize" taxation.
How and when are they going to see that ? In my country, there newspapers headlines about how supermarkets have egregious margins. Is this true ? I don't know, but they don't mention shoplifting in the articles.
> I think people keep on thinking that "the rich" feel they have some kind of moral obligation to help them. As we've seen time and again, they do not.
The rich do not have a moral obligation to help us but they do have a legal obligation to pay their taxes and give back to societies they live in and benefit from like everyone else.
I am not sure it's moral obligation but they could also have the decency to stop spending so much money in lobbying, politics and information campaigning in order not to pay their due proportionally to what they own. Is this not accurate anymore : https://www.fool.com/taxes/2020/09/25/why-does-billionaire-w...
Where I live, shoplifting is a "sensitive" political issue, so it's very unlikely companies will cite it as such. But in the US, people are seemingly more open about it:
https://www.cnbc.com/2022/12/06/walmart-ceo-says-shoplifting...
https://torontosun.com/news/world/walmart-closing-up-shop-co...
https://www.cbsnews.com/sanfrancisco/news/worker-closing-dow...
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11965589/The-stores...
> The rich [...]
Sure, I agree with your points, but they don't matter that much for the present discussion about stores closing.
Even putting that aside, are you seriously in favor of people stealing just because it's from Big Corp(tm)? Because the victims are the 1%?
Please re-contemplate exactly what you are arguing for, because small frustrations add up and are ultimately what topple societies and countries. Those shoplifters aren't Robin Hood.
It seems that's just your opinion. There's no reason that it is the case least you think policing depends on the will of individual police and not of the objectives of the department. Policing shoplifting isn't even the same job as investigating homicide or market crimes.
> Even putting that aside, are you seriously in favor of people stealing just because it's from Big Corp(tm)? Because the victims are the 1%?
> Please re-contemplate exactly what you are arguing for, because small frustrations add up and are ultimately what topple societies and countries. Those shoplifters aren't Robin Hood.
Someone shoplifting to put food on one's table and clothes on one's body is a Robin Hood, it's just that taker and the receiver are the same person :) I don't think it should be legally but provided it is to feed and clothe yourself and not say resell, I don't think it's morally wrong either.
Sure inability to enforce the law does topple societies, but the inability for people to fill their basic needs does too, the lack of accountability of people in power even more.
People everywhere still seem to have faith that the institutions generally work as intended.
Most have already decided it's okay, and they do it through their intelligence agencies. This is an expansion in scale through LE agencies.
Your second argument might hold but you are not providing anything. I reject the premise that criminals are more tech savvy than regular citizens.
I would be more likely to support this law if somehow i was proved it wouldn't be used against peaceful ecologists and Macron protesters.
All I'm saying is before you complain about your neighbor, clean your own house
“China could already do social scoring more more than 20 years already, it's nothing new, they are just catching up, crime these days is very well organized and tech savvy, they have to adapt somehow”
This is just "allowing" them to actually use what gets collected in court instead of having to do so much parallel construction to pretend they can't.
Curiously so far only few extreme left and extreme right sites have pointed that out loud.
Meanwhile at the Parliament a nice intervention to "limit surveillance power" for connected sex toys https://twitter.com/Ugobernalicis/status/1676639024184786958
Welcome to the Summer 2023.
>Art. L. 2212-3. – Les mesures prescrites en application des articles L. 2212-1 et L. 2212-2 sont strictement proportionnées aux objectifs poursuivis et appropriées aux circonstances de temps et de lieu. Elles ne peuvent être ordonnées qu’à défaut de tout autre moyen adéquat disponible dans un délai utile. Il y est mis fin sans délai lorsqu’elles ne sont plus nécessaires.
I guess the surprising part is that it's up to the Prime Minister to define "Emergency"?
Beside that in a Democracy only the Parliament can declare a state of emergency.
- "le fait de ne pas communiquer les codes de déverrouillage de l'appareil ou de ne pas répondre aux forces de l'ordre en cas d'interpellation ; " // to not unlock your phone when police ask for it during an arrest
- "le fait de laisser son téléphone mobile allumé à son domicile ou de le mettre en « mode avion » en arrivant sur les lieux de la manifestation pour éviter le bornage, " // leaving your phone at home and go protesting in order to prevent from being geotagged
But yeah, the previous card was ridiculously large.
https://www.service-public.fr/particuliers/vosdroits/F11601?...
However, police forces are allowed to ask anyone their identity without any reason, and if they can't justify of their identity, they can be detained by the police for up to 4 hours for verification, and Police may requires them to do a fingerprint scan: https://www.service-public.fr/particuliers/vosdroits/F1036
Also, the comparison is ridiculous.
However, ID is never controlled, and many live with OQTF (Order to leave the French territory).
Source: https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chiffrement#En_France (in french)
https://youtube.com/watch?v=i326eNOa6Us&feature=share7
Personally, I have nothing to hide. But I enjoy hiding as much as I can for the enjoyment of the technological challenge and also the absolute "Fuck You, Forever" to those sociopaths that want to control that which they have no natural right to control.
The backdoor will most likely be provided by tools like Pegasus.
a while ago we had protest 'yellow vest' and protest against retirement age the government used police to massively destroy the people that were protesting many were left with lifelong disabilities. then we had the covid confinement where we had to have a paper to go out and average citizen where hunted and assaulted for not respecting it. and now we have people rioting and breaking businesses, hurting others in the streets with nothing to stop them.
it just doesnt make sense. to me it sounds like we are becoming a dictature where lies are pushed as facts, riots are pushed by the state and entertained to scare the average citizen, surveillance state is controlling us and any kind of protest is severely dealt with. france is becoming scary under macron. just like canada with trudeau, those two guys, young leaders that corrupt journalist pushed and love even tho they represent everything wrong in our country, those two 'modern leaders' they used wokism and green washing to move us further away from real democracies like switzerland. now we are a pink dictature.
I've discussed that with ecologists and union workers/socialists extensively. I'm not victim blaming, and some were in agreement, but it was obvious that if we accepted undue policing power to investigate Muslims and anarchists, or even royalists, soon enough the state would turn against any threat to its ideology, and the ecologists saw that recently. And once again, the state was smart, and only rural ecologists were illegally detained, the student/bicycles ecologists were left alone. Niemöller still isn't studied enough in Europe it seems.
To this day Robert Paxton's works on Vichy France are still seen by many inside France as "controversial" and what have you, so measures like this one here are just what you'd expect coming from "republican" France.
https://www.timesofisrael.com/israel-police-use-of-nso-spywa...
Amazing.
EU is a large union of 27 countries. France is having a big authoritarian turn that started after the 2015 terror attacks, and it accelerated under Macron.
That law would certainly not pass in the majority of EU countries.
Additionally, even though I believe this law is terrible, you can't compare a for profit company collecting information on ALL its users, and a police service collecting information on a few thousands people after a judge allowed them to.
I'm not entirely sure about that. If data is legally collected by a company, who's to say the government can't legally purchase it for their own ends?
More info here: https://commission.europa.eu/law/law-topic/data-protection/r...
Even for a specific purpose and specified people, approved by a judge?
As usual these laws start by being applicable to only terrorists, to make it easy to pass, and then years later their scope is extended...