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Comment by unglaublich | Hacker News Reader

This all assumes the person doesn't have a reason to verify your presence before doing a brain dump.

Maybe they do. Maybe they want to make sure you're there; maybe their issue is dependent on the time; maybe they want to send/receive a TOTP; maybe the whole point of the conversation is to check whether the medium is functional; maybe they want to send you something sensitive...

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None of these are counterarguments

> Maybe they want to make sure you're there

There's not even an a real scenario here

> maybe their issue is dependent on the time

"Hi, I have a time sensitive question about X, are you available to help for a minute?"

honestly that's much more likely to get a response from me than "hi" anyway, because I know it's urgent, assuming you're not someone who abuses the idea of urgent.

> maybe they want to send/receive a TOTP

"Hey, I need a TOTP real fast, are you around?"

And my response would be "no, I'm not sharing my TOTP with you" but alas

> maybe the whole point of the conversation is to check whether the medium is functional

"Hey, having trouble with Slack today, are you seeing this?"

Again, I'd be much more likely to respond than just "hi" that might turn into a real time suck for me

> maybe they want to send you something sensitive

"Hey, are you screen sharing? want to send you some budget numbers"

None of these are improved by just saying "hi"

I really wish people would stop treating IM as a proxy for face-to-face interactions. It isn't that, because we are not face-to-face, but that's how these IM apps got their contracts, sadly.

Email forces people to wait, be patient, be clear about what they want to say since its much more obvious engaging in face-to-face conventions in that medium is hella annoying.

You could hint that the convo needs to be synchronous, e.g. "Hey, let me know when you have a few minutes to spare / can jump on a call" or something along those lines.

If you're sending a message like that, you should at least include a subject. "Hey, let me know when you have a few minutes to spare / can jump on a call to talk about the company's new live squirrels project"

Yes, I agree, I should have added that in my example

This is all better accomplished by explicitly saying all of that:

"Hey, you around? I need a help with a $time-sensitive-thing" or "Hey, ping me when you're around, I need a 2FA code for $XYZ", instead of just "hello".

Hey, are you there? I need a 2fa code for the netflix account

This message I will reply to if/when I'm around. I know exactly what I'm getting into. "Hi" could be I have a quick two second thing, or I'm about to dump 6 pages on you and expect a reply in a few minutes. I'll reply when I'm prepared to deal with the latter. Maybe.

> This message I will reply to if/when I'm around.

which is perfect because the precondition is that the other person wanted to know if/when you're around

> "Hi" could be I have a quick two second thing, or I'm about to dump 6 pages on you

so you agree that "Hi" carries zero information and should be avoided?

Yes exactly. I'm agreeing that this is the right alternative and will get a response from me much faster than the empty "Hi". "Hi" <brief description of why I'm reaching out> is always superior.

That’s the point—it’s ambiguous. It’s better to use more words to indicate what you’re saying hi for than to try and force me to acknowledge you by hiding your reasons up front. That is a form of manipulation.

That is kind of a terminally online attitude about it don't you think? Exchanging pleasantries before getting to the point is a part of a lot of cultures in-person verbal communication and the point is to avoid the appearance or actuality of treating another person as a machine to be operated for maximum profit.

It just doesn't translate to online text communications at all, is so maladapted that it becomes actively rude.

Its gauche to call shennanigans on a simple faux-paus

I don’t know what your point is, truthfully. If we are to be considerate of our fellow human then in my opinion we should be aware of the medium we communicate on. I think everyone is smart enough to understand that just because I’m in your contacts list doesn’t mean I’m available, especially in a work context where just saying “hi” back removes me from whatever context I was in. Obviously if we are in person it is different.

My point in brief is that characterizing this behavior as broadly manipulative is ridiculous.

Yeah, it’s up there with “hey what are you doing right now?” Or “do you have any plans tomorrow?”

It’s trying to encourage acquiescence before anything has even been discussed. It’s definitely a manipulative tactic.

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