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Comment by bradlys | Hacker News Reader

First “round” interviews are so often done by recruiters that it’s basically a joke to pass them. I always call them screeners and “are you a serial killer” calls. Unless you say something that goes against the typical grain of what these calls should have (e.g. speaking poorly about a company, saying you were fired, clear anti-social behavior even if minor, you have niche demands that no one will fill, etc…) then you’ll pass them easily.

The first call is always about seeing if you even know that there’s a good amount of acting going on from both sides. You play your part and you’ll get to the technical interviews. People have a lower threshold for acting as you progress in the interviews and you can say more things that clearly aren’t good to say. (I.e. anything that demonstrates you don’t tolerate bullshit)

No one is complaining about this round of interviewing because it’s not a real issue or obstacle for anyone.

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That was my experience every other time I've applied to a job in the last 10 years, but not during my recent job search. I got a number of rejections from 5 minute first round interviews for no obvious reason. Whereas once I got to a "proper" interview it was plain sailing. I think companies are getting a lot more applications than they were and are having to put a stronger filter in the first rounds than was the previous norm.

This reminds me: what's the interview approach when someone was fired from their previous job? Just lie because disclosing that information will very likely disqualify you?

I’ve been fired from a job - it’s glaring obvious from my CV - I’m just honest, tell then how I learnt from my error and how I believe it makes me a better dev having reeeealy messed up that one time. If a company doesn’t want to hire me after for that reason it’s not a company I’d want to work for anyway.

People could be on different wavelengths.

When I read "fired", I don't immediately think of "forgot a WHERE clause when deleting from a production database table". That happens, but I don't think I've actually seen anyone fired for it.

I think of it more like "you just gradually found you couldn't do the job, didn't meet performance standards, etc". In that case, the usually bland stuff about how the position wasn't a good fit but this one is seems to me like the way to go.

And "CV" suggests to me a non-American or an American academic - whereas some people in this thread may be in the SF bay area (although I'm not).

I’m English and it was a balls up that cost the company six or maybe seven figures. I actually left on good terms (at least with the team) but they needed a sacrificial lamb for the board.

Don't lie. Don't act/feel guilty. Embrace (in your head, in preparation) the reasons you had to leave as though they were your own. Only talk about the aspects of leaving your job that you have in common with a voluntary resignation on your own initiative.

If you were hiring someone, think about what you would want, and what you want to know. Anything negative in someone's past, you do not really care about it, you just care they are past it and it won't have negative future consequences.

Avoiding the negative aspects of your past is not a matter of deception, but of proving that you are emotionally ready to move on.

On a written job application, which in my experience comes at the end after they think they want you, be honest, but read it like a lawyer and make sure you don't disclose anything that you don't have to.

Embrace (in your head, in preparation) the reasons you had to leave as though they were your own.

Interesting and very well put.

What people who advocate the "fuck it, just lie" approach is that lying (about things one doesn't really need to lie about) can be more harmful to the person telling the lie than to its recipients.

Yep. Lie. It’s what I do every time.

I’ve continued to get new jobs and ones that were better than previous.

There are also "legitimate" reasons to fail first round interviews, such as the recruiter picking your resume for a role that you are not actually qualified for (which the hiring manager notices after the interview), your salary expectations being too high for that specific company size/geography/role (usually a communications mismatch where they advertise a more senior role than they actually have), or it coming out that you are not legally allowed to work for them (they cannot sponsor visas; they don't hire in your country; they require citizenship; etc).

All these cases are technically the company's fault, not the candidate's, but they do often come out right after the screening call.

So if, heaven forbid, someone ever does get fired - which of the two remaining options do you propose is best: (1) commit suicide, or (2) lie in response to the "have you ever been fired" question?

Since answering honestly is aparently a deal-breaker in your book.

Yeah, lie. No shit. You think companies aren’t lying?

Lying is part of the theater that is our current employer-employee relationship. Everyone knows this

Everyone "knows" this but it generally applies to more nuanced categories. For example, about liking your boss's jokes, believing in "Agile", etc.

But in regard to, you know, important stuff, such as matters of one's employment record -- you know they have ways of checking up on what you say, and that any company worth working for does exactly that -- right?

So definitely don't give the boss that fired you as a reference that they might call to check up?

Many employers make a point of checking the past 2-3 places on your resume, regardless of whether they were listed as references or not.

Also, not listing your most recent clients/managers as references (because why wouldn't they be glowingly positive?) can be seen as a red flag.

Again, I’ve never had this issue and never has anyone I know. They don’t call companies to ask if you were fired. They ask and tell you if you worked there and for what dates.

Reason for leaving is never told.

OK, so you're dodging the question, then.

"What to do if they ask question X?"

"Just lie, like everyone else does."

"Except you know that won't work if in fact they do ask you question X, right?"

"Doesn't matter, because they they won't ask you anyway."

Weird.

In any case it absolutely is standard practice for a significant portion of companies to go this route (especially in more traditional sectors). Even if it hasn't happened to you personally, or to people in your bubble world.

This is HN - the bubble of Silicon Valley and venture capital. I can tell you with great certainty it is incredibly uncommon to encounter people in HR who will tell you the reason why X person left the company. In a region that is happy to do lawsuits - they don't bother. After all - it's no longer their issue. They'll just verify dates of employment and that's it.

I made a comment here on what I think is the right approach:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36588394

We had reception (basically someone random) do the first phone screen interviews at my last company.

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