YouTube is blocking videos for users who block ads
pcworld.com
pcworld.com
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36517238
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36535417
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36538577
As others have said, ads are psychological warfare, and I want no part in that.
Those who don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it.
The default assumption should be that corporations (especially large and powerful ones) lie all the time, unless proven otherwise.
Or that their correct PR statement is temporary at best and subject to change at any time, without notice, etc. etc.
I expect that YT will continue to get worse as long as they hold a dominant position, and I don't intend to wait until they're as bad and expensive as cable before resisting.
In fact, isn't the strategy YT is pursuing here (offer a service below cost to capture a market then raise costs after destroying the competition) illegal?
They're already extracting more than enough profit from all of us at this point it's just pure toxic greed
Youtube Premium looks pretty expensive in comparison. I agree £60 is more of a reasonable price.
I suspect/predict the ads on Youtube are going to get longer, and more numerous, and more will be unskippable, and therefore more annoying.
(Of course it's true you'll still see shill review videos, and video creators doing ad reads for shitty VPNs - but those ads don't come from google)
> What kind of argument it is?
Back in the 2000s, on tech forums whenever someone would say "ad blocking is theft, server costs have to be paid somehow" someone would respond "I'd pay to remove ads if they'd let me" - well, now's our chance to do exactly that.
I adblock everything myself - but I earn a mid-career adult's salary now, and I get more value from Youtube than I do from Netflix so I don't mind paying for it. I also use gmail, google search and google maps with ads blocked, so I don't mind giving google a few bucks a month.
For now.... Until they decide to increase the price of ad free premium and introduce a new tier at the original price that includes ads.
It's the same argument people made about how if you get free stuff you should expect ads and if you don't like things then pay for them. It turns out the things we paid for just started including ads as well.
Sure, but if that happens you cancel then. Not paying now because it might get worse in the future seems a bit backward.
Unfortunately the enshittification of the whole experience is almost guaranteed, I agree with you there. But for now Youtube Premium is very much worth it when watching a lot. I have watched >160 hours since January [0] and am super happy with it. I always use an ad blocker so my experience hasn't changed. But it feels like the right thing to do. Also because content creators get more money per view from premium users. And because I pay for the family plan I don't have to be subjected to overhearing ads played by my immediate family either.
[0] Youtube shows stats on the account page on how much the premium features were used since going premium.
They promised the same thing with cable TV when it was new.
But you still have to sit through the sponsor segments, right? Which are getting increasingly egregious - I've seen 12 minute videos with almost 3 minutes of sponsor fluff in the middle.
(Although if YouTube Premium has a better recommendation algorithm, I'd definitely pay for that given the current one is garbage.)
If you don't like this, I suppose you can block the channels that do this and only watch amateur channels that aren't in it for the money. Or they make their money from Patreon or other sources.
You'll be paying, and _still_ be the product all around the web.
Talking to her, he realized how easy it was to present an appearance of orthodoxy while having no grasp whatever of what orthodoxy meant. In a way, the world-view of the Party imposed itself most successfully on people incapable of understanding it. They could be made to accept the most flagrant violations of reality, because they never fully grasped the enormity of what was demanded of them, and were not sufficiently interested in public events to notice what was happening. By lack of understanding they remained sane. They simply swallowed everything, and what they swallowed did them no harm, because it left no residue behind, just as a grain of corn will pass undigested through the body of a bird.
Let’s just face the reality: the jig is up. I just really really hope the paid experience is completely ad-free.
Note that the debate is now framed around the degree of advertising or the degree of tracking that comes with their paid subscription, and the entire conversation is about whether a service is reasonable in their fee and business practices.
The entire landscape of conversation has been profoundly shifted from whether we should even allow this kind of tracking in the first place to how and what degree of tracking are we allowing.
We didn’t need any of this when Bram Cohen’s BitTorrent ruled — and it was pretty damn efficient at digital entertainment distribution. People forget, all of these services launched to unseat that system because it was kicking so much ass. It’s not like we need streaming services — these are designed replacements for non-tracking systems.
There is absolutely no reason a copyrighted entertainment system has to become streaming or come with truly VAST troves of data collection that gets sold en mass to every third party imaginable with no transparency. The technologies exist to do this in so many other ways.
Yet, that point is rarely discussed anymore — the entire debate has been quietly reframed to a question of degrees.
Now, to suggest that such a system isn’t necessary or even good elicits nothing but “it’s not a problem if you pay for an account,” and “it’s not like any other services are better about it.” The entire landscape has moved.
There is a notable shift from individual consumption through direct ownership and the general assumption of the rights of ownership to individual leasing with intensive surveillance by proxy for the exchange or consumption of what I can only refer to as “entertainment commodities.”
It’s rather insidious.
Remember Winston’s lesson: The large mass of common people do not find in themselves the need to think independently, to question or to investigate what they have been taught.
And then consider that the most powerful tool in the arsenal of power to influence humanity has convinced everyone that in order for them to be entertained they need to submit to constant surveillance and tracking in their living rooms and on their mobile devices everywhere they go. Social and streaming are the coin that is offered for this contract.
It’s very literally big brother. And the debate has been reduced to what you will pay for the privilege of watching the latest Game of Thrones episode or whatever.
It’s just becoming so conditioned that it’s becoming invisible to people.
If this sounds conspiratorial, it’s not. It’s just a statement of the value proposition that’s being offered by these platforms and what they are trading for it. And people seem to be willing to foist over every last tidbit of information about themselves to be entertained.
It’s the way that things are shifting in the debate — the classic reframing of the debate to degrees of surveillance capitalism — which is challenging.
“Simply paying for an account” is actually opting in to a massive surveillance system that has deep implications to the future of society and the AI future we are headed towards. Read the EULA on one of those streaming services sometime, and then go look at what the data brokers have on you (and yes, they have PII they just can’t sell it, but state actors can access it).
It’s interesting to me to see how the frog in the pot is getting boiled — it sounds fringe and makes me uncomfortable to even write this response because I feel like such an outside in raising these points these days.
Forgive the long response. Just trying to give you a substantive answer, and certainly not trying to be aggressive in doing so so forgive.
You basically want to extract value from YouTube and content creators without offering anything in return.
If the terms of YouTube are unacceptable to you, simply stop using it. That's rather different from 1984.
That's just not going to happen.
But I choose to believe GP is serious, and you might consider that if your best retort is a variation of "but if you got what you wanted, you'd move the goalposts", you might be replying to a valid point.
Technologically they are ten years and ten billion dollars behind, of course, but they can catch up with enough customers.
And I wish YT would put some woodworking (and other things) in my feed. YT seems to think physics and math are the only things I'm interested in.
Your payment details are generally throwaway - and expire. Additionally, you can use virtual card numbers nowadays.
Not sure why the angst.
Your number is out there no matter how careful you are with it. I don't think it really matters which country you live in at this point.
2. Payment details, depending on the exact payment method, expire in the order of years. Someone as big as Google can easily correlate payments across a wide variety of services. Whether they are allowed to, and whether they do, is a different matter.
Time to hurriedly download every valuable video we can before the enshitification is complete...
What personal data? If you only use that Google Account to watch YouTube, there's only your viewing habits plus all the information you provide when creating the account (name, address, phone, payment, all of which can be obscured to an extent)..
Alphabet Inc needs to be broken with antitrust. Youtube has to be a separate company.
What a massive failure of democracy that this hasn't happened already. Fuck FAANG.
It's not neccessarily all locked behind - hopefully, a lot of the creators have local copies of the videos, which they can upload to a competitor, if need be.
The kicker? When your youtube account gets banned, you cannot access the subscription page to even cancel youtube premium. You're only allowed to appeal every couple weeks, and for over 6 months appeal has been automatically rejected via automated system because rejection comes within minutes of submitting appeal.
The second kicker? I paid for another youtube premium account during the appeal process and somehow that account also gets banned for "deceptive practice". Same deal with appeal process.
The third kicker? I also pay for Google One, which boasts live person service. They basically said they have no ability to coordinate with youtube team and I'm shit out of luck. I'm assuming a live person told me that since it took a few days for the ticket to get processed.
So after 6 months and $150 and losing access to all my music and playlist on youtube music locker, I had to change credit cards to stop the charges on the gamble that it didn't affect my primary google account.
The final kicker. For shits and giggle I send another appeal on both accounts after a year. The second one somehow magically passed review and was unbanned. The first account, tied to my primary google/gmail of almost 20 years remains banned.
Though you might be able to sue them. They took your money without providing the service you paid for. Though I must say it's a bizarre business practice to block paid accounts without even explaining why. It's another lesson not to rely on these large faceless corporations.
Also can't remove credit card because you need some sort of valid default payment. Ended up setting up a gift card as backup payment for other services, then changed credit card number. Thankfully youtube didn't use other services backup payment method, and basically they cancelled account after no pay.
It's bizarre (infuriating) a paid account can't get in person service. It's bizarre paying for Google One for in person service doesn't extend to youtube. But yeah rough lesson to learn. Still stuck in Google ecosystem due to reasons, but have more frequent / redundant backups. Meanwhile, shameless use of adblock & sponsorblock for youtube.
When I wasn't paying for it - the ads were atrocious. The worst part is that my kids would have to slog through ads too - and I just didnt need them being advertised to.
Youtube is a benefit to humanity and I am happy to dish out the $12/month it costs for Premium. (Yes, sure, I drank the koolaid)
Which also gets you YT Music which is a fine music streaming service, so it's even more worth it
At the end of the day business to consumer advertising on YouTube boils down to ‘waste x of your limited breaths and heartbeats being lied to and gaslit by a brand’ and I genuinely don’t understand how someone can believe adtech like that is a social good unless their salary directly depends on it. Advertising is psychological pollution and I believe online it should be strictly regulated in the same way advertising is regulated on British TV.
If I do run into this limit, I'm not sure what I'll do. No YouTube will win me back a lot of free time. I want to read more, but somehow all my free time seems to be eaten up by Youtube. Maybe less Youtube would be good for me.
I cannot use YT in browser, because I don't have YT account anymore and most of videos require scanning my ID for age verification or tightening my personal phone number for creating account. If terms of use support their monopoly, I'll find other ways.
Playing the segments you either need to explicitly define all the files you download in the manifest, which is inefficient. Or you need to have a segment template which defines a formula for the segment names that increments with time. With that the player can generate the video segment that needs to be fetched for playback.
When you create an ad break you'd have to have some backend which split the traffic routing so that media segments came from a different source. And that source would be unique for every user. This is hella complex for the CDN edge infrastructure at scale because you need systems which understand the state of the individual users session. It's much easier for them to manipulate the playback manifest so that it stitches different periods for ads and content.
It's not impossible, just a PITA.